Hitting your kids page 20

[TheFastCat]

Is it OK to hit your wife for losing an earing?
For forgetting to pay a bill?
Think if you hit her, she will remember next time? Maybe she will, but she would be too scared to do otherwise.

What about hitting the man who accidentally ran up the butt of your car, because he wasn't paying attention?

I just don't understand why people think its OK to hit a child, but not an adult.

Slippery slope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[PrimalJewishAmericanPrincess]

It does depend on the kid, not the parent. I got spanked. My parents found that putting me in time outs did not really affect me. My brother? Being put in time out was like the end of the world to him and was extremely effective.

Correct, but it was up to your parents to find out what action on their part caused a desired result in you, the child. It is UNBELIEVABLE to me how many of you posted back on this that it depends on the kid. Fuck it then, just breed and throw the kids in a field. They'll all find their way eventually, if parenting doesn't matter.

[kenn]

I'm sorry I got to jump in on this one. I have a lot of background in martial arts and CQC stuff. TaeKwonDo and Aikido are not good self defense. I'm saying that with having trained in both. TKD made me a hell of a kicker but TKD is a sport. Being a competitive shooter shooting at a target with a firearm will give you an advantage over someone who seldom shoots but it does prepare you for a self defense encounter having to clear your house. Just like that takes specific training to build "muscle memory" so does hand to hand combat training. Aikido came from Aiki-jitsu which we studied and borrowed move from. We had a saying "nobody ever said Aikido was for self defense."

I'm not trying to get on your case. I just don't want you get caught up in the illusion that gets built up over styles and from movies.

What do you recommend?

[Uncephalized]

because...(3rd time)- when you do this to your child specifically as mentioned in your thread, violence is still just an idea. Its a concept, a mystery word that mommy uses. When his lips swells up from a smack in the mouth though, he tastes violence and feels it. Then you can try words again, now that that word is no longer a concept, and is instead an experience label that makes his belly uncomfortable to dwell on.

Kids will learn about violence from other kids, typically at a very early age. That's no reason to teach them that their parents are to be obeyed out of fear (and yes, if you use physical pain as a reinforcement, fear is exactly what you are instilling--to varying degrees depending on the sensitivity of the child). You're teaching them that larger and more powerful people have authority because of their ability to impose violence on others.

This is entirely different from learning about violence, and the correct responses to it (which should be, in my opinion 1) avoidance followed by 2) swift and decisive defeat of the aggressor in case it's unavoidable and finally 3) survival by any means necessary if the aggressor can't be stopped. In no case should you EVER teach a child to aggress, which is what you are doing if you escalate to hitting them for a non-violent offense), in a progressive and relatively safe peer environment--progressive in that the child and his/her peers will naturally become more capable as they age, and relatively safe as in age-appropriate environment and adult supervision.

There is no shortage of violence and pain in this world, which an attentive parent can use instructively to illuminate the pitfalls of the world the child needs to learn to navigate. The parent doesn't need to be one more source of danger.

and meat has everything to do with it- you can't teach your kid that violence is wrong and feed him animals that were murdered and skinned and chopped up and cooked.

This is a very stupid argument. You can easily teach a child that aggression toward people is wrong while eating meat and even slaughtering animals yourself. Eating animals is part of human physiology. We do it to fulfill our biological needs and, yes, because we enjoy meat. You can even use humane animal husbandry and slaughter as yet another way to show your children that the infliction of pain is not the goal of the slaughter and should be avoided as much as possible, that the animal's ability to feel pain and fear should be respected. This is the foundation of empathy, and it's not hard to understand. Unless you are emotionally damaged, which I suspect you might be from the way you seem to think about the subject.

I guess I do not consider myself particularly scary. And obviously it depends on the kid. If a kid will listen to what you have to say and perhaps not hit their brother on multiple occasions and then perhaps not go to school and hit/not hit kids there then that might just work. Other kids might need to be put in time out or grounded or get a smack on the butt occasionally. It depends on the kid.

First off, I'm not criticizing your overall parenting strategy or your specific tactics. But do you really think it's relevant whether you think of yourself as scary? You are many times the size of a child. I would be terrified if a person twice my height was chasing me around and trying to hit me. Hell, I would be terrified of the cuddliest teddy bear if it was huge and trying to do me harm. Think about it. Children and adults do not live in the same perceptual world.

A have a little story about violence and bullying for you just to bring things back to perspective. My daughter was severely bullied up until the age of twelve. My wife and I had been to the school on many occasions, but to no avail. The school is too weak to lay blame on the aggressor, and the aggressors parents refused to believe that their son is bullying a girl. The school's solution to an aggressive male bully? Bring the bully and the victim together, and have them talk it out!!! So in essence, the school is telling both parties involved that they are both to blame, and that my daughter is somehow responsible or at least complicit in her own bullying!!!

Anyway, to make the a long story short, I eventually told the school that if they continue to allow this to happen, then I would teach my daughter how to punch correctly. They were appalled to say the least. I reminded them that the criminal code allows for self-defense, (which they argued, lol) and that if they weren't going to help my daughter then she would help herself.

They didn't, and she did. After punching a few noses, the bullying stopped but she still suffers from the abuse that she experienced.

In a perfect world there would be no need for violence, but this world is far from perfect...

In response to this I have to reiterate that teaching situation-appropriate responses to aggression by others, through progressive training in a supervised environment (which is what martial arts training accomplishes) and using violence as discipline are worlds apart. One teaches confidence and makes the child more capable and, hopefully, more responsible in his use of violence. The other teaches fear of pain (or desensitization to it; both are disordered in my opinion) from larger, more powerful authority figures. They're not the same thing at all.

[Uncephalized]

What do you recommend?

I don't think I have as much experience as Scott F, but disciplines like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, mixed martial arts and Krav Maga have excellent reputations as teaching effective combat skills. Personally I happen to favor good old karate (if you can find a good school; that's a crapshoot though, and non-martial artists won't necessarily know what they're looking at) as a good introduction to the inexperienced to teach the body awareness, coordination and basic striking skills as well as mental discipline before moving on to a more realistic combat art.

[canio6]

But do you really think it's relevant whether you think of yourself as scary? You are many times the size of a child. I would be terrified if a person twice my height was chasing me around and trying to hit me. Hell, I would be terrified of the cuddliest teddy bear if it was huge and trying to do me harm. Think about it. Children and adults do not live in the same perceptual world.

I understand your point completely. My remark was meant flippantly. I was also not advocating chasing anyone around. I was also not suggesting screaming at them, threatening them, degrading them verbally, or abusing them mentally all of which can be done by people of all sizes, all sexes, and at any time all without ever laying a finger on a child. The point being that any parenting technique can be scary given the method in which it is delivered. The OP seems to think that physical contact with a child in the scope of discipline (for lack of a better term) is automatically scary. I would say that that is not necessarily the case.

[Mud Flinger]

Kids will learn about violence from other kids, typically at a very early age. That's no reason to teach them that their parents are to be obeyed out of fear (and yes, if you use physical pain as a reinforcement, fear is exactly what you are instilling--to varying degrees depending on the sensitivity of the child). You're teaching them that larger and more powerful people have authority because of their ability to impose violence on others.

This is entirely different from learning about violence, and the correct responses to it (which should be, in my opinion 1) avoidance followed by 2) swift and decisive defeat of the aggressor in case it's unavoidable and finally 3) survival by any means necessary if the aggressor can't be stopped. In no case should you EVER teach a child to aggress, which is what you are doing if you escalate to hitting them for a non-violent offense), in a progressive and relatively safe peer environment--progressive in that the child and his/her peers will naturally become more capable as they age, and relatively safe as in age-appropriate environment and adult supervision.

There is no shortage of violence and pain in this world, which an attentive parent can use instructively to illuminate the pitfalls of the world the child needs to learn to navigate. The parent doesn't need to be one more source of danger.
.

I've been reading the past 10 pages waiting to make the comments here. You don't need to slap your kid to teach them about violence. Others kids will most likely have beat you to this! This is where you can explain that if they didn't like it then don't do it to others. Most toddlers go through a biting stage and learn quickly from other kids not to bite this way as well.

[Chaohinon]

"My father beat the hell out of me. All it did was make me fantasize about the day I could murder him." - Don Draper

That's pretty much how I feel about my family. I pity people who say things like, "my parents hit me, and I turned out fine." Because in saying that, you're desperately trying to run from the fact that you're not fine. I'm not fine, and I've come to terms with that.

We could run in circles all day arguing about the ethics of hitting kids, but just look at the empirical evidence. What happens when you beat your dog for years on end? Eventually it's going to attack someone. Take a stroll through a bad part of town late at night, and you'll most likely be accosted by someone whose parents taught them the value of using violence to get their way. And if you're one of those parents, what are you going to do if your kid grows up to be 6'4", 230 lbs? You better hope he doesn't remember, or that you succeeded at making him fear you.

[whitebear]

"My father beat the hell out of me. All it did was make me fantasize about the day I could murder him." - Don Draper

That's pretty much how I feel about my family. I pity people who say things like, "my parents hit me, and I turned out fine." Because in saying that, you're desperately trying to run from the fact that you're not fine. I'm not fine, and I've come to terms with that.

We could run in circles all day arguing about the ethics of hitting kids, but just look at the empirical evidence. What happens when you beat your dog for years on end? Eventually it's going to attack someone. Take a stroll through a bad part of town late at night, and you'll most likely be accosted by someone whose parents taught them the value of using violence to get their way. And if you're one of those parents, what are you going to do if your kid grows up to be 6'4", 230 lbs? You better hope he doesn't remember, or that you succeeded at making him fear you.

You are generalizing way too much here.

[Scott F]

What do you recommend?

For someone wanting to learn self defense over sport, and as far a "styles" go, most Krav Maga stuff looks pretty good. I say that without having studied KM. You're just more likely to find a school around the country.

My background is in TKD, Arnise (a lot of knife self defense), Jeet Kune Do, some Aiki-jutsu and Jujitsu. What's most important is who you are training from, what's their background, and their expertise. With the exception of TKD all my training was under a former police officer and others in the organization. The advantage of that was in getting taught by people having first hand experience....which isn't the same as getting instruction from a TKD instructor who may have never been in a street encounter in his life.

You will fight the way you practice. So if you take a Judo class you will learn some good take down tactics (Judo is a good sport for kids and useful on playground fight) but you will not learn how to jab your finger into an attacker's eyes. So if and when you get into a street encounter your training, or lack thereof, will kick in (no pun intended) you'll resort to that training. You might instinctively go for an arm bar when a strike to the attacker's eyes would've quicker and easier. It won't look good on a movie set, though.

Brazilian Jujutsu (BJJ) is very useful to learn. It maybe the best system for learning how to fight/wrestle on the ground. But the sport side of BJJ teaches to deliberately take the fight to the ground. That's not something you want to deliberately do on the street. What if he's got a knife or a friend of his near by has one? You can't run away. TKD doesn't even teach you to wrestle or go to the ground.

These are some videos from my main instructor https://www.youtube.com/results?q=ho...=w1&authuser=0. We incorporated a lot of drills from Arnise to build flow but we also would mix it up to introduce an element of chaos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzgdOzJASeM


If you want to learn Close Quarter Combat (CQC), and not just a martial sport, you got to shop around and interview the instructor. If he's a former navy seal or army ranger with a good martial arts background you're probably good to go. In an instructor, I want an emphasis on breaking apart situations/scenarios and then using strategy and tactics to deal with that situation. What are the what/ifs? What improvised weapons are in the environment? Incorporate training guns and knives, and multiple attackers. A seasoned police officer who's had to mix it up a lot is a good resource.