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Thread: Using PB/Paleo in a medical setting page 2

  1. #11
    ulnauy's Avatar
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    Cutting down on carbs, especially sugars, has become fairly well accepted. But whole grains are still strongly emphasized. I have yet to meet an attending who did not preach the benefits of whole grains. High-fat is anathema. 98% of doctors still believe the amount of cholesterol you eat affects your lipid profile (despite conclusive studies otherwise). Telling patients to throw away egg yolks and strictly avoid saturated fats is commonplace.

  2. #12
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    So do these doctors base their ideas that high-fat is anathema on the prejudice of what they learned in medical school? Do you feel that many of them actually care about the matter or are just comfortable collecting a paycheck rewarded for spreading antiquated knowledge and practices? I guess I just don't understand how the medical community cannot view the spreading epidemic of obesity as a failure on their own parts, given the increasing data and knowledge suggesting that CW is highly flawed.

  3. #13
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    Your problem is not as bad as the students who know Austrian Economics but have to get a Ph.D. in economics from an Ivy league school, or almost any mainline University. They have to study, learn, and mimic what they know is wong and hate. At least you don't have to do that. It could be worse.

  4. #14
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    JungleJane is offline Junior Member
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    Hey there!

    I have worked in health care for over 10 years as an aide and I have been a RN for over 6 years (and worked for a pharmaceutical company for a bit) and I can tell you, trying to introduce PB into practice is quite...frustrating. You can say whatever you feel like but be prepared to have your colleagues laugh at you and not back you up. This is especially hard when you are trying to establish yourself. Honestly, try to find a really great Dietitian that is onboard with PB and refer your patients to them when you can. Do your research, but unless it's a double-blind trial performed by a big name, everyone will discredit it. And be aware that Pharm companies run hospitals and doctors (most of the budget of a hospital goes to drugs, not workers, etc...and what's that Dr.? Let me take you to lunch and give you free trips, just so you can trial/push our drugs, please...), so just keep that in mind...No I'm not jaded, just sick of people being their own worst enemy and our current medical system perpetuating it... :P You will have better luck as a GP for pushing PB as it's your own practice, but if you are going to specialize in a hospital (such as a cardiologist) you will have to get on board with their routines/practices (aka drugs)...no hospital wants a "quack" unless you already have years of amazing results behind you. Good luck tho, we need trailblazers to correct the sad state of our reactive instead of preventive healthcare.

    Also, the amount of info medical professionals get on nutrition is extremely sad. As a nurse, we actually get more info, but it's still all CW. EXCEPT I have met a handful of Dietitians that are turning to PB. These will be your best resources, I can not advocate them enough. Take a couple of extra courses if you are able. Educate your fellow students if you can, and advocate the mind set of a health care TEAM for your patients (including physiotherapists, home care, etc), not a physician-run group. This way the needs of a patient are met wholistically from every angle, and perhaps be more preventative (can the person get PB friendly "meals-on-wheels" if unable to leave their home prior to surgery, etc?).

    Sorry for such a long response, you hit close to home for me...
    Last edited by JungleJane; 02-10-2013 at 01:23 AM.

  5. #15
    Future_PB_Dr's Avatar
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    I appreciate the response, JungleJane. And by no means do I think you are jaded; I would be surprised to find anyone on this forum that would think otherwise, given the current discrepancy between what works and CW. And as I have already alluded to, that is going to be my biggest fear going into medicine. However, I love your idea of surrounding myself with wholistic resources for my patients. Too often, it seems, people are frustrated to failure simply because they are given so many differing opinions that they don't know who to listen to. My ultimate goal is to give my patients truth; I know not all will listen, but I've never been one to feel the conviction that I need to please everyone I cross paths with, so I am okay with that. As long as I get through to a few people, maybe that will get the ball rolling toward a change from CW to debunked medicine.

  6. #16
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    I'm trying to get my PhD in a medically related field and my department tried to kick me out because when I got sick I tried to treat it with diet and supplements when the doctors couldn't figure it out. If I were you I'd keep quiet about anything outside of what they tell you until you graduate. Thankfully the equal opportunity office helped me since I'm technically disabled (although I'm back to almost normal now) and female.

    When my celiac bloodwork came back partially positive, my doctor told me to "not bother with the diet because it was too much work" and take anti-depressants. I wish I was kidding. The world needs more doctors that appreciate nutrition, but don't let them know you do until you have the degree or they might try to screw it up for you.

  7. #17
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    Your department tried to kick you out? Are the same doctors that you consulted for your illness the same doctors that you work with in your PhD program? I'm just curious to know how your department came to be involved in your treatment and why they would associate dietary and supplemental means of treating your illness with crockery? I have always been under the impression that physicians at least appreciate that nutrition is directly related to health, unless they were aware of you trying to treat your situation with PB nutrition, and simply didn't agree with this tenet of your nutrition? Sorry for all the questions, but your situation perplexes me and I find it outrageous.

  8. #18
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    Future PB Dr, I also wanted to give you this advice that I posted on another thread for the another med student: "Bite your tounge, encourage vegetables, and wait for your turn to talk when you are established and your patients want to hear what you have to say. We have to teach nursing students this too. Just because YOU want to tell patients all the info you know, it's not about YOU, they have to be ready and asking for info. And DON'T p*ss off your superiors or you will get NO WHERE in your career. Eat your humble pie for now. But THANK YOU for wanting to be preventative instead of reactive.", which I think also applies to this situation. Please keep us updated, even with crazy CW information you hear passed on to your patients. I would love to hear them!

  9. #19
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    I've learned quite recently that perhaps the only way to really get through to someone is to wait for them to ask you for help, or, as you said, "...and your patients want to hear what you have to say." No one wants to be put in a corner and made to feel as though they are being judged, even if we're not judging them and really just desire to help. Even though we want the best for others, an individual's resistance to change is a delicate state of emotion, so it must be treated just as delicately, even if this requires an abundance of patience. For the time being, I will just have to bite my tongue and learn what I can when time the comes. I just wish I weren't entering a field that has been so marred by flawed research and capital gain. However, I feel convicted to do so because it pains me to see so many individuals battle with obesity, many in my own family. What pains me even more is how CW will get them nowhere, yet they can't help but to think otherwise.

  10. #20
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    Jungle Jane has the truth of it F_PB_Dr. I am a medical professional too, previously worked as an RN for 15 years. Although CW is the mainstream belief, we are also encouraged to use "Evidence Based Practice" which means that so long as you can provide the evidence to back it up you can go ahead. So yeah, do your research, read lots, and be prepared with lots of counter arguments for when you are challenged.

    I find it is quite easy to passively introduce Primal concepts in a medical setting. Just simply advising someone to eat more vege, or cut right back on processed foods is very easy and there ain't no one going to argue with you about that. I'm lucky that in my current workplace I work closely with the elderly so I'm allowed (even most CW supports this) to encourage them to eat a high fat, high calorie diet and most of them have never been to a MacDonalds before, so I don't need to discourage highly processed diets. Gentle daily exercise is also in lines with both CW and Primal as is encouraging good mental health through socialisation and relaxation.

    You'll find ways to make it work in your profession too.

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