Why does cheese halt weight loss/make one gain but Whey and yogurt do not? page 3

[sakura_girl]

There are many factors that influence weight gain and loss, pure fat loss is another story, which is why CICO is fundamentally true and undeniable, but the variables (hormones and genetics and lean body mass and cooked vs. raw food and grass-fed vs. grain-fed and your daily activity included) are what change your actual TDEE and absorption. So when someone argues that CICO is not true, I think they really mean the average recommended CICO for losing/maintaining does not apply to alland you need to find what your individual CICO threshold is, but it doesn't change the fact that CICO is how it works. Now, 500 calories of steak is more metabolically expensive than 500 calories of chocolate cake, but it's not the calories that have changed, it's your processing that has altered the bioavailability and energy expenditure of the same amount of calories, as well as retaining some extra water molecules with the cake carbs. We likely won't absorb every calorie from a steak, especially if it's not well-done; it will be lost in evacuation, but we will absorb most calories available from cake.

Thank you.

[MamaGrok]

yep.

[Damiana]

As others have said, cheese is very calorically dense and it is very easy to overeat. I can eat 8 oz of yogurt and be aware of what I'm eating, but it is so easy to eat a big block of cheese without realizing it.

[emmie]

Just a cheese comment. I love cheese but gave up all dairy (except butter) more than a year ago.

My supermarket carries Kerrygold butter (which I love), and just recently stocked Kerrygold cheese (unfortunately right next to the butter where I can't miss it). I'd read great things about it, and decided that a single indulgence wouldn't hurt. There were 3 types, and I bought one called "Dubliner," mainly because it came with a coupon for $2 off the butter!

It is the BEST cheese I have eaten in my entire life--and I grew up with cheeses imported from Italy (Italian-American family). I am now hopelessly in love with Kerrygold cheese, but I must end this relationship unless I want to return to my old life of morbid obesity. (Perhaps a very occasional one-nighter?)

But if there's anyone not concerned with weight management or who is trying to gain weight, check out Kerrygold cheeses!

[j3nn]

Just a cheese comment. I love cheese but gave up all dairy (except butter) more than a year ago.

My supermarket carries Kerrygold butter (which I love), and just recently stocked Kerrygold cheese (unfortunately right next to the butter where I can't miss it). I'd read great things about it, and decided that a single indulgence wouldn't hurt. There were 3 types, and I bought one called "Dubliner," mainly because it came with a coupon for $2 off the butter!

It is the BEST cheese I have eaten in my entire life--and I grew up with cheeses imported from Italy (Italian-American family). I am now hopelessly in love with Kerrygold cheese, but I must end this relationship unless I want to return to my old life of morbid obesity. (Perhaps a very occasional one-nighter?)

But if there's anyone not concerned with weight management or who is trying to gain weight, check out Kerrygold cheeses!

Dubliner is addictive! I buy large bricks at BJ's. OMG. I could live off of it. Tastes like a softer pecorino romano.

[JoanieL]

Perhaps a very occasional one-nighter?

The occasional one-nighter can be very therapeutic.

[ChocoTaco369]

This has not proven true for me. I was eating 1200-1400 calories per day on the Mediterranean diet in the first 6mo I lost 20lbs the second 6mo I went up and down the same 2lbs. The scale was stuck and I wasnt losing inches either. After 6 weeks primal I am down 9lbs and i have been averaging 1400-1600 calories per day sometimes as much as 1850. There has been no change in my activity level either.

Starving yourself on a diet rich in low-nutrient food is a great way to bottom out your thyroid - quickly. Especially if you're a female. Large caloric deficits with low-nutrient food quickly crushes your metabolic rate, especially in the absence of saturated fat and carbohydrate. If you stopped losing weight, it's because your TDEE reduced drastically and became your new (reduced) metabolic rate. Or, you simply weren't calculating calories accurately. Studies show that people miscalculate caloric consumption by up to 50%.

You are either eating less calories now than you were before, or your metabolic rate is higher than it was before from a healthier lifestyle and more balanced hormones. But if you were not losing weight before, you were taking in more calories than your body needs. If you are losing weight now, you are at a deficit. This never changes.

[ChocoTaco369]

There are many factors that influence weight gain and loss, pure fat loss is another story, which is why CICO is fundamentally true and undeniable, but the variables (hormones and genetics and lean body mass and cooked vs. raw food and grass-fed vs. grain-fed and your daily activity included) are what change your actual TDEE and absorption. So when someone argues that CICO is not true, I think they really mean the average recommended CICO for losing/maintaining does not apply to all and you need to find what your individual CICO threshold is, but it doesn't change the fact that CICO is how it works. Now, 500 calories of steak is more metabolically expensive than 500 calories of chocolate cake, but it's not the calories that have changed, it's your processing that has altered the bioavailability and energy expenditure of the same amount of calories, as well as retaining some extra water molecules with the cake carbs. We likely won't absorb every calorie from a steak, especially if it's not well-done; it will be lost in evacuation, but we will absorb most calories available from cake.

That's why it's all of our own individual job to experiment and find out a caloric deficit we can sustain. Whether that includes increasing physical activity to increase your TDEE, eating foods that maximize your TDEE by increasing thyroid, testosterone and reducing estrogen and cortisol or by eating the highest satiety foods to reduce your caloric intake...well, that's your job to figure that one out. But CICO is always true. No one ever said you'd fit perfectly into some online calorie calculator. Real trainers that make their body composition their job take months or years of experimenting to find their TDEE and track it often to monitor the changes. They have a set of goto meals they're used to making and they follow a routine. The best way to obtain that body composition you want is to find a plan you can stick with and make it a routine.

[primal_alex]

Anybody noticed that cheese made of caseins (highly inflammatory proteins which also drive insulin peaks), while whey is... whey, just not caseins. Additionally, yogurt is fermented: there are still caseins in there, but have been denatured.

Fat is not the cause, I eat 120 grams of fat per day and am just fine.

[MamaGrok]

Large caloric deficits with low-nutrient food quickly crushes your metabolic rate, especially in the absence of saturated fat and carbohydrate.

j

Exactly my point. CICO is true, but many, many things affect what happens in the middle between the CI & CO. Many things can change your basal metabolic rate. My husband can eat "too much" cheese for a week, but he'll never gain any weight, b/c even without realizing it, he'll burn off all those calories. His leg will bounce while he sits; he'll take all his phone calls standing; he'll get urges to run up stairs for every little thing he realizes he'd rather have, instead of saving up till he needs a few things.

The body does the same thing if you eat in a way that contributes to metabolic slow-down. It'll crush your thyroid function, and even if you beg yourself to use your standing desk, you won't be able to do it for more than a few minutes without constant urges to sit.

That's why CICO alone works for weight loss for a while, but eventually the physical urges overcome the intention to "move more" or "eat less."

So a person thinking she's eating too much XYZNutrientDenseFood can just cut it out, but if she doesn't replace those nutrients and now her body is missing what it needs to sustain a high metabolism, there will be no weight loss, because the internal parts of the equation have shifted.

CICO works as an observation, but not long-term as a weight reduction strategy. In other words, forcing it will only work for a little while. Eating the *right* foods is much more important than the focus on amounts.

Not that I think cheese is necessarily the "right" food.

Anybody noticed that cheese made of caseins (highly inflammatory proteins which also drive insulin peaks), while whey is... whey, just not caseins. Additionally, yogurt is fermented: there are still caseins in there, but have been denatured.

Yes, I said this on the first page.