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Thread: Eat More Fat! The Nutritional Ketosis Challenge continues... page 89

  1. #881
    canio6's Avatar
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    B2B and ssn679doc - thanks, makes sense...probably more sense when I am actually fully awake

  2. #882
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    Quote Originally Posted by canio6 View Post
    Quick clarification on what the two of you are stating here...I am not trying to be wilfully obtuse or cause an argument, but what I am reading/understanding may not be what you are both saying, hence the question...

    It is my understanding that a calorie = a calorie in that they are both equal measures of heat or some such.

    It is also my understanding that each person requires a certain number of these calories daily to maintain their BMR. This can increase or decrease based on age, sex, weight, activity level, medical conditions, metabolism, etc.

    Given these two ideas it would seem that if correct BMR was 1,500 calories, it would not matter where these 1,500 calories came from, as if 1,500 calories were consumed, weight (all things being equal) would remain the same. Excess calories would lead to gain, a deficeit would lead to weight loss.

    Now, I freely admit that it is far easier to over eat calories on certain foods (junk foods). I can easily eat a 1,000 bag of chips and still be hungry and thus eat 1000 calories more of some other junk. Where as, it is far harder to eat more after eating a pound of steak cooked in butter, which has about the same caloric numbers (1000). This has nothing to do with the number of calories or the quality of calories but in the characteristics of the food themselves - one being more nutritious/satiating than the other.

    As such, what I think you are both trying to say is that if one is eating higher quality food sources (non-processed, real foods - meat, vegetables, fats) and not junk foods this leads to weight loss because your body consumes less calories. Not what it appears on the surface that 1000 calories of meat is somehow different than 1000 calories of junk.

    Is that correct?

    I ask because it can be confusing to some if they think they can eat all the primal foods they want and due to 'quality calories' not gain weight. It has been my experience, that this simply is not true. I can easily gain weight eating too many primal calories.

    or am I completely losing my mind?

    (this is what I get for posting at 0430 lol)
    You are correct in all. A calorie is a calorie but also, all calories are not created equal. You are right in saying a person can not just eat all the calories they want (Primal) and not gain weight. They WILL GAIN!

    I believe the arguement from CW is flawed in "JUST" a calorie is a calorie. It is not. Tim Ferris author of the 4 hour Body takes about how outdated a calorie measurement is, but it's all they had back then and nobody has come up with anything different. As he stated, a block of wood technically has calories, ie, when burned it will raise the temp of water.........but when eaten, it will do nothing for the body in the way of energy. Also, some calories although easy to digest, just go to the fat cells, not being used as energy. Hence...ALL CALORIES ARE NOT EQUAL.

    I do believe though that we still have to watch how many calories we eat. Again, another "however". What is probably more important that "how" many calories we eat, is the "kind" of calories we eat. I believe it is a balance of the two.

    This started with my complaining I screwed up yesterday and what MFP told me. For me, staying within the calorie guidelines MFP has put down for me....as well as eating those calories in the right ratio's ie fat, protein and carbs, I will be guaranteed to lose the weight I want.

    I worked most of my life in the horse industry and was extremely successful. I now am retired and am a successful poker player. Reason I'm stating this? In both, I did not listen to just one train of thought. I took what made sense from this trainer (or poker player) added it with what this other trainer (or poker player) said to do and came up with my own strategies. Even CW has it's good points. Take what works from CW add it with what works with PB and HFLC and you will succeed.

    Having said that....I think I"ll fast today to make up for my calories not being as low as I wanted yesterday. LOL

    I will see on Monday what the scale and tape say in how I did in my first week of eating like this .

    I also apoligize for my humour if some don't get it.

  3. #883
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannispearl View Post
    I want to join.
    I haven't had enough time to read through as much of this feed as I want to yet. But I know that mathematically, I'm going to need a little help.

    I just finished my first month of Primal. Technically it has gone well... no grains/beans etc has not been a challenge. I already have celiac and I'm not big on gluten free substitution products, usually.
    Anyway, I did really well the first couple of weeks because I was journaling everything, I was eating enough (and good portions, I think) and I was totally geeking out on the wealth of knowledge online here and in PB book. I hike every day with pups...and the strengthening waaas really good and now sort of ... half-assed. I know I need routine for workouts and guidelines for food and I need to re spark that passion I was feeling in the first couple weeks! I'm not going anywhere, this is the right place for me... but I know I'm not balancing things correctly. I need some guidance.

    So I was doing well and then a flip switched and I kind of shut off and started an "I've got this" mentality. And I totally didn't "got this" at all cause I'm pretty sure I gained back what I lost AND some. the AND some.... is muscle, I'm sure. But man, seeing more lbs on the scale and my clothing is not looser. That's rough. I am up to 158-160 (fluctuating). My favorite weight was 135 but apparenly I look too skinny at that weight so I'd be cool in the 140-145 range. Actually, considering I want to start crossfitness and I am a hiker I'd be into a little more muscle so I'll aim for 145.

    SO I want to do this...
    And at the same time I am terrified of eating that much food. And at the same time if I don't eat enough I also binge on "healthy" things in unhealthy quantities. Oy. I'm struggling to get back on track. I'm going to click that link and start up!
    So far I have figured out that after my BMR and adding in physical activity I need around 1900 cals a day.
    The part where I have a hard time is the rest of the percentages. Help?
    Welcome, but to be honest if you have been only eating Primal for a month, I would stick with it for a good 6 months before doing any tweaks. If you are having trouble staying the course I always find rereading the book helpful.

  4. #884
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    Ok, so the results of the blood ketone monitor. Very interesting.

    If you'll recall I lost about 12lbs in my first 2 weeks of primal after having been GF for 2 years. I gained 2lbs this week and was quite confused because my ketostix showed I was in ketosis (1 away from the darkest purple), I was still doing well on carbs and calories.

    Well, I measured this morning using the ketone blood monitor (it took me 2 of the reading strips because I'm such a spaz about pricking my own finger and couldn't get enough blood) and my reading was .4. Ummm, that's barely ketosis. So, I'm on a quest to ADD MORE FAT. Several of you mentioned when I posted my numbers that the protein was too high and fat was too low. So, today I'm starting my focus on fat. I know many of you have said that 2 weeks in is hardly time to panic or start changing things, however, being armed with this info helps confirm what you've each been saying. My numbers are below. I'm not sure if any of you have any questions about the ketone monitor, but if so feel free to ask away.

    Fat Protein Carbs
    93 107 6
    116 117 17
    83 74 5
    161 82 22
    114 110 10
    91 97 19
    67 55 20
    120 89 20

    Megan

  5. #885
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    ^ Interesting results. I'll be watching your experiment with interest!

  6. #886
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    Quote Originally Posted by mks8500 View Post
    Several of you mentioned when I posted my numbers that the protein was too high and fat was too low. So, today I'm starting my focus on fat. I know many of you have said that 2 weeks in is hardly time to panic or start changing things, however, being armed with this info helps confirm what you've each been saying. My numbers are below. I'm not sure if any of you have any questions about the ketone monitor, but if so feel free to ask away.

    Fat Protein Carbs
    93 107 6
    116 117 17
    83 74 5
    161 82 22
    114 110 10
    91 97 19
    67 55 20
    120 89 20

    Megan
    I'm not an expert but I'm not sure that your protein/fat ratio is the reason for not being really into Ketosis. If anyone followed the Atkins diet it was high protein. It was also Atkins that pushed the ketosis. So I would guess, carbs have more to do with being in ketosis more than the ratio.

    Having said that, I'm not saying more fat than protein is not better. Just not sure if more protein than fat is the problem you're not fully into ketosis.

    Others that are more versed in this, please elborate.

  7. #887
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    From what I remember of Atkins it was under 20 carbs (I was except 1 day) and included not only high protein but also high fat. I may be remembering wrong, but that's the way I remember it.

    I'm not sure...

    Megan

  8. #888
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    There are some links in the first post to people who are experts in the field of Nutritional Ketosis.

    There are levels of ketosis. Dr. Atkins knew this and that is why he recommended seeking the dark purple on the ketostix. For him keeping the carbs low was the key. Current thought tells us that a higher percentage of fat in relation to the other Macros will lead to deeper ketosis. Also, we are told to keep protein levels to the amount our body can use because excess will be turned into glucose which will in turn keep us out of deep ketosis.

    All of this can be measured with a blood ketone monitor. Megan, we are all REALLY interested in what you find out.lol
    Last edited by Pebbles67; 02-09-2013 at 07:34 AM.

  9. #889
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    Dr. Atkins actually recommended only 2 weeks at 20g of carb or less. He then recommended adding carbs slowly to find one's critical carbohydrate level. How many carbs one could eat and still remain in ketosis.

  10. #890
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    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    Weigh in results for first week of LCHF..Down .8.(down 8-9lbs last month by eating primal) Right at 171 this morning. Two pounds away from being in my normal weight range (5'9F) Slept like a champ. Woke up STARVING though. This girl is going to eat today! Haven't been hungry the last few days, so I am having a hard time reaching 1200 calories. That will not be the case today. Have a great Saturday everyone. Oh, still having vivid and weird dreams.

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