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Thread: Eat More Fat! The Nutritional Ketosis Challenge continues... page 265

  1. #2641
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    Quote Originally Posted by dob View Post
    dkjames, if you don't mind, could you expand on tuning your fat intake with your personal experience. I read that you are in weight maintenance and eat a lot of fat now, but when you were losing weight, what did you do specifically?

    Thanks
    Well, that's sort of straightforward: caloric deficit on a ketogenic diet So move your butt a lot or eat little fat (while keeping carbs super low and protein moderate so you don't eat up your muscles).

  2. #2642
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    marissalinnea, I think you were looking for other type of websites to track your calories. I personally use calorie count from about.com to track my calories. There are RDA settings, which can be customized by percentages.

    I wouldn't worry to much about your protein. It takes time to adapt to this WOE. Keep constant and see what happens. If it doesn't work, adjust by removing some protein. . Everyone reacts differently and maybe having higher levels of protein works for your body. It took me three weeks before i was able to get my protein down to 15% of my total calories. Hopefully, when my body is fully fat adapted I can start inching my protein up a bit to gain muscle for body comp adjustments. You're doing great. You're making progress and that's what counts. I found the mental game always harder. When I began with atkins and began the induction phase, I was scrambling and was frustrated. But after a couple weeks, it became easier and easier.

    Pebbles, thanks for starting this thread. You provide a lot of great info.

  3. #2643
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    "So move your butt a lot or eat little fat" Sorry dkJames, but this statement concerns me. I'm afraid someone is going to read what you are writing and misunderstand.

    NK plans are never meant to be "low fat" no matter whether you are losing or in maintenance. The fat helps with energy and satiety.

    For example, here is a 1200 calorie day for me. I eat 20 g carb + 60g protein or 320 cals. That leaves 880 calories for fat, 97grams, or 73% of calories.

    So the P & V recommendation of 65%-85% fat still bears out.

    When I am eating to my BMR of 1700, I usually have about 75g protein and fat moves up between 75% and 80%. Carbs always stay low.

    Yes I always run a calorie deficit, but the program is low carb, moderate protein and high fat as most NK experts recommend.

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    Poor expression from my part, I reckon.
    I meant to not stuff yourself with fat if you want to lose fat on a ketogenic diet. You must let your body use its fat store. If you are on weight maintenance, a ketogenic diet with more fat than on weight loss mode is a great WOE!

    Let's take your example:
    - keep the 20g carbs + 60g proteins CONSTANT
    - tune up or down the fat intake (say 60% of kCal for weight loss, 80+ % for weight maintenance)
    The caloric deficit must come from fat, at carbs + proteins maintained constant. Fat is the regulator for weight loss. Note that I implicitly mean that you are not interested in muscle gain (lean body weight gain), which is more regulated by protein / physical activity. And all these factors are not independent variables. So to make it simple, ignore muscle gain for some time, and drop your body fat by going on a slightly caloric deficit ketogenic diet by adjusting your fat intake at carbs and proteins constant.

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    Yes, this is the battle I currently fight. I exercise way too much to consistently eat at the 50-60g protein level. That is why I cycle protein up and down based on activity and cravings which I have found is my body's way of telling me to eat more protein. I also supplement amino acids to try and keep a balance.

    Thanks for the clarification.

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    wow this is all been so helpful. I realize my mistake was not using a lower weight for goal than where i'm currently at...and i started GAINING weight. egads. SO i just adjusted to 140# goal weight and redid my macros. In fact, Pebbles, you calculated 140 for someone and it was SO HELPFUL!

    I find the challenge in thinking of meals - balancing them - and figuring this out on the fly (like traveling). What are some go to menu ideas people use? I find a big ass green salad (simple greens, cukes etc.) and a dressing is great for fillig up and not eating up all your percentages.

    Another question--if you FAT falls below your goal (eg. goal is 127 but you eat 80-90) will that throw you off or be counterproductive? If you eat too low fat (by accident) are you stalling your fat burning engines? I find it challenging to squeeze in so much fat and i'm doing bulletproof coffee each morning. and am generous w/coconut oil for cooking.

    CHeers,
    RED

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red View Post
    wow this is all been so helpful. I realize my mistake was not using a lower weight for goal than where i'm currently at...and i started GAINING weight. egads. SO i just adjusted to 140# goal weight and redid my macros. In fact, Pebbles, you calculated 140 for someone and it was SO HELPFUL!

    I find the challenge in thinking of meals - balancing them - and figuring this out on the fly (like traveling). What are some go to menu ideas people use? I find a big ass green salad (simple greens, cukes etc.) and a dressing is great for fillig up and not eating up all your percentages.

    Another question--if you FAT falls below your goal (eg. goal is 127 but you eat 80-90) will that throw you off or be counterproductive? If you eat too low fat (by accident) are you stalling your fat burning engines? I find it challenging to squeeze in so much fat and i'm doing bulletproof coffee each morning. and am generous w/coconut oil for cooking.

    CHeers,
    RED
    Red, if your fat intake falls below your goal, but your carb and protein intakes are the same as they used to be (low enough to be ketogenic), then your body will have to use its fat store if you happen to need more energy than you ate. If your goal is to lose body fat, regardless of any other goal, keep in ketosis but adjust your fat down a little (60% of total Cal intake instead of full blown 80-85%).
    To be in ketosis is not necessarily eating tons of fat but to keep insulin level down all the time. This forces the use of adipose mass to fuel yourself. The protein requirement must match your physical activity: eat too much and gluconeogenesis will produce glucose out of excess proteins, eat too little and your muscle will be used for glucose (brain needs). But that's the beauty of ketosis, you shouldn't have to eat up your muscle mass. You regulate your fat loss by how much fat you eat and your physical activity (slow pace is mostly fat-burning).

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    ^Agreed

    Just try not to end up consistently below 60% fat because you might begin to crave things you should not eat. So says the woman with a binge eating disorder.
    Also the higher fat level along with low carb and moderate protein is part of the mechanism for getting into NK.

    On the Bullet Proof Coffee...Several months in, I find it is best to eat real food rather than force in extra fat. I do put fat in my coffee, but no where near the volume I was adding when trying to get to 80% fat intake.
    Last edited by Pebbles67; 04-28-2013 at 01:00 PM.

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    Pebbles67, thanks for having DKjames clarify and DKjames thanks for the clarification.

    So my macros are approximately 80/15/5% (+/- 1-2%) at 2,200 calories. My BMR at my current weight of 211 is 2,068 and I'm in the light activity range according to the Harris Benedict calc, which means I multiply my BMR by 1.375 for 2,844 Kcals. I would like to at least the average BMI range, which means I would need to weight 185 lbs. At 185 lbs, I would need 2,621 Kcals. So are you saying that if I want to lose body fat, i would need my calories to be at 20% of 2,621 and maintain my protein and carb intake as though I was eating 2,621 and eat less fat as long as my fat consumption is greater than 60%?

    Pebbles, since you eliminated bullet proof coffee, what are eating to compensate? I just find that drinking BP coffee of some sort gives me a morning jolt and allows me to meet my fat intake without taking shots of oil in the evening. Thanks

  10. #2650
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    If BPC works for you than use it. I find I am happier between 70 and 75% fat. At one point, I was having 2 BPCs a day, but not much else. My calories top out at 1800 usually, so that much BPC for some people does not leave enough room for real food. I am cooking with healthy fats and eating fatty meats.

    Yes, you should eat below your BMR plus activity. 20% is a good amount. You will have to experiment with macro levels to find the right combo for your body within the recommended ranges for Nutritional Ketosis.

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