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Thread: Eat More Fat! The Nutritional Ketosis Challenge continues... page 243

  1. #2421
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    I think we should compile a list of all the various formulas kicking around for how to calculate protein needs. Then people can pick and choose (maybe blend) their own. This can be a confusing topic. These are my numbers just for fun.

    Sisson's PB says .7g/lb of Lean body mass (So at 150 and 20% that is 120X.7=84gr)
    Kwasniewski's Optimal Diet says "Ideal" weight in kilos (140lbs=63.5k so 63.5gr) the trick here is how to define "ideal".
    Phinney & Voleck say :according to this table http://www.carbsmart.com/how-to-add-...l-ketosis.html my range as a 5'10" female would be anywhere from 81-169gr
    Rosedale says:http://drrosedale.com/healthplan.htm#axzz2NxlwZXJ1 Ideal weight in kilos-10% so for me 63.5-6.35=57.15gr


    PLEASE HELP ME FILL IN ANY OTHERS YOU CAN THINK OF. THANKS.
    Last edited by Paleobird; 03-18-2013 at 11:24 PM.

  2. #2422
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    Quote Originally Posted by mks8500 View Post
    DG - You are frustrated and I just want to tell you not to give up the same way you told me the same thing a few weeks ago.

    .
    Thank you Megan for putting things into perspective. You are right I should be frustrated, not depressed. You have given me the motivation to continue & thanks to everyone for your support. I suspect I would be gaining even more without you.
    Last edited by Ddraig Goch; 03-19-2013 at 12:22 AM. Reason: spelling

  3. #2423
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    Thanks Paleobird, Those are the only ones I have used. The "ideal" weight issue has been a problem on this thread. I have told people to pick a weight that is on the low end of weight range for their height. I have been using your recommendation of 100lbs + 5 lbs for each inch over 5 feet. However, I am 5"10" as well and I now see you are using 140 as your optimal weight.

    *Kwasniewski allows ideal weight in kilos + or - 10%. So for me 61-75 grams. In the end, I still like his formula best which is why he is in the first post. Except, recently I read that he wants minimum fat at 2.5x ideal weight. I usually only eat about 2x.

    Tomi I am following Dr Rosedale's recommendations. So for me with an ideal weight of 150lbs/68kg -6.8 =61g protein. Because I believe that too much protein raises blood sugar.

    The Keto calculator is based on Phinney and Voleks chart referenced in Paleobird's post. *The values can be changed to reflect what you want to do. So, to answer your question, I think protein level is part of the N=1. Try P&Vs levels and see what happens. May I ask why you are only aiming for 60% fat? I do not agree with the Keto calculator's idea that fat doesn't matter. It may not matter for getting into ketosis, but it sure does matter for satiety and staying power. Most NK gurus recommend at least 65% (Keeping carbs and protein the same, 105 grams of fat would be 65% with total calories at 1445.)

    Glad to have you back.

    Ddraig Goch I'm glad you are continuing with us.
    Last edited by Pebbles67; 03-19-2013 at 06:22 AM.

  4. #2424
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    Tomi, what were you doing when it was working? You were losing weight, right?

  5. #2425
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    OK Gang, Sadly, I have to admit that I have been the Artificial Sweetener Queen almost the entire time that I have been Primal and even before that. Recently while on the EMF protocol, my intake has increased exponentially. Those BPCs taste soooo good with HWC and sweeteners. Last Saturday I completely dropped sweeteners from my life. I am NOT yet loving my black coffee, but other benefits are coming to light. I also dropped dairy. This will be a 30 day experiment. More on that later.

    Interestingly, Robb Wolf says that when a client is having trouble losing weight, he asks 3 questions.
    1)Do you use Artificial Sweeteners?
    2)How much of your daily calorie intake is from dairy? (Dairy BTW is a Paleo no-no. So I was surprised that Robb's clients would be eating dairy.)
    3)How is your sleep?

    Here is an article that explains the negatives of sweetener intake.
    The Dish on Sugar & Sweeteners | Balanced Bites | Holistic & Paleo Nutrition Education


    BTW all you stevia enthusiasts. Apparently unless you are using the green stuff made from the ground leaf, you are using what amounts to an artificial sweetener. (Please don't kill the messenger. lol)

  6. #2426
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    What about for people that don't use artificial sweeteners, don't eat any dairy and their sleep still sucks?
    I've had sleep issues for years and going primal/paleo has only minimally helped that. Yesterday was our first day of ketogenics and sleeping was sooooo much worse.
    I'm hoping its because I just started and my body needs the 3-4 days period to switch over to fat burning.
    By yesterday evening I had a headache, my stomach was doing somersaults and my head felt really fuzzy.
    Of course my husband is loving it and I'm sure when he gets out of bed this morning he will have dropped like 10 pounds or something ridiculous!
    Surprisingly I was really close to my ranges right out of the gate on this, especially considering that fiber isn't counted for carbs. (Thanks Pebbles67 for that info!)
    I'm using the ideal weight ranges so basically 4:1 ratio for fat versus carbs and 2:1 ratio for fat versus protein.
    My HSIS (hotstuff in swimwear) weight is 120lbs which is 54.43kg.
    Carbs should equal half of that: 27g
    Protein is +/- 10%: 49-59g
    and I'm going for the low end on the fat for more weight loss so x2: 108g
    Does that sound about right?
    Last edited by Salina13; 03-19-2013 at 07:00 AM.

  7. #2427
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    I'm pretty much using the formulas on the first page. I'm not likely to ever wear swimsuits again (LOL) but I'm figuring my ideal weight at around 138. I'm 5'4" and at that weight I can wear size 6 or 4 depending on style and brand.

    So, goal wt 138 = approx 63 kilos
    Protein range is 56.7 to 69.3 grams
    Upper range of carbs is 31.5 grams
    Fat range is either 157.5 g (at 2.5x) or 126 g (at 2x) (i've been using the 2x number mostly)
    So my calories S/B around 1512 to 1785
    I calculate my BMR to be 1463.59

    This seems to be a pretty comfortable range for me to maintain for quite a while. I'm feeling very satisfied and am not hungry much anymore. Cravings are just gone...there isn't anything I crave and the only time I feel hungry is if I use too much liquid splenda or too much carb/sweet at one time. I'm losing slowly, but I see a downward trend, which is just fine with me.

    Pebbles, I'm in the artificial sweetener group. That was the last thing I was planning to give up, lol. I've cut it down tremendously though. I use two drops of liquid Stevia maybe a couple of times a week--usually just to take the strong edge off the plain Greek yogurt, but not to sweeten it, and I use liquid splenda (liquid to avoid the fillers, but I know it's still chemicals) if I make or buy iced coffee. That's a huge drop from what I used pre-PB. Still, I was planning to get the whole PB and EMF thing really down, then slowly but surely get rid of the last few "junk" things I ingest.

    I AM finding that I enjoy my morning cup of coffee on the way to work with just cream. That is so totally different for me. I'm used to drinking it sweetened, so it's a little shocking that I look forward to it so much.
    Last edited by 252dlp; 03-19-2013 at 07:50 AM. Reason: adding
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  8. #2428
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    I don't know the answer to this, but am interested in your thoughts. If you end up eating very few carbs, then do you think the protein can trend a hair higher, so that you total protein never exceeds what protein + carbs would yield?

  9. #2429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebbles67 View Post
    OK Gang, Sadly, I have to admit that I have been the Artificial Sweetener Queen almost the entire time that I have been Primal and even before that. Recently while on the EMF protocol, my intake has increased exponentially. Those BPCs taste soooo good with HWC and sweeteners. Last Saturday I completely dropped sweeteners from my life. I am NOT yet loving my black coffee, but other benefits are coming to light. I also dropped dairy. This will be a 30 day experiment. More on that later.

    Interestingly, Robb Wolf says that when a client is having trouble losing weight, he asks 3 questions.
    1)Do you use Artificial Sweeteners?
    2)How much of your daily calorie intake is from dairy? (Dairy BTW is a Paleo no-no. So I was surprised that Robb's clients would be eating dairy.)
    3)How is your sleep?

    Here is an article that explains the negatives of sweetener intake.
    The Dish on Sugar & Sweeteners | Balanced Bites | Holistic & Paleo Nutrition Education


    BTW all you stevia enthusiasts. Apparently unless you are using the green stuff made from the ground leaf, you are using what amounts to an artificial sweetener. (Please don't kill the messenger. lol)
    Great questions and the article about AS was so timely this morning I have dropped AS. My coffee had CM in it and was different but not horrible. I am going to try and grow stevia and dry it this summer.
    Karin


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  10. #2430
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    Salina, that sounds about right. Be sure to do some bouillon, it really does make a difference in those symptoms.

    For me, it seems the EMF has made a positive difference in my sleep.

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