Eat More Fat! The Nutritional Ketosis Challenge continues... page 237

[martinus]

As for only eating 30g fat, that seems scary low to me and was why I had a problem with martinus' calculator in the first place. It seemed ridiculous that he would suggest something like that could be healthy. The /r/keto FAQ everything about keto that the Keto calculator is attached to seems to suggest a higher level of fat..

Technically, eating just 30g of fat should be possible if you have enough body fat to supply the missing calories. In theory you could eat zero fat and be ketogenic - in practice that's definitely not healthy.

P&V wrote that that you should eat at least 30g daily to prevent the formation of gallstones, that's what I am using as the lower limit. I don't really know how to find out what a healthy lower limit would be. I think the main concern is that one might not get much fat soluble vitamins or trace elements, so a multivitamin might be helpful

[demuralist]

Sorry Geo, I will try less cheerleading and do something more useful. If you go to chowstalker and put crock pot into the search line several pages of recipes will come up. They have photos so you can decide ahead of time if it is something your family might be interested in.

[Pebbles67]

I have lost 3.5 lbs in the two days since I started the new macros, dropped dairy and artificial sweeteners. I only dropped calories by 500, so it is not just a case of cals in and out.

My new macros 75%/20%/5% 1400 cals (20% below BMR)

[Pebbles67]

Geo Is the problem food for work or food for dinner?

I eat a small breakfast at 6am (coffee with 1 tbsp of CO, 1 egg and 1 sausage link)
I have some "go to" meals for lunch. (tuna, chicken or egg salad with homemade mayo and celery sticks or dinner leftovers)
Snack at mid afternoon includes one serving of the following. (macadamia nuts, almonds or pork rinds.)

I decide about dinner the day before. Sometimes it is something simple for the family like hamburgers or hot dogs and I'll eat leftover meat and a salad. We always have chicken thighs precooked in the refrigerator. My husband cooks about 3x a week. What about assigning meal prep to the girls a few nights a week? Does Clint cook?

Anyway, don't give up. Eating for NK is no harder than eating Primal. It just takes planning a few easy menus. You know that in the long run, staying the course is the best medicine for you.

[Ddraig Goch]

I too am beginning to think NK is not for me. I gained again this am. So in 3 weeks of strict low carb mod protein (<50g), I have lost 7 lb & gained back 3.5 without losing any LBM. I have averaged 1160 cals which taking my BMR as 1650 is not that extreme. Yesterday I consumed my lowest (600 cals) to compensate for a high cal day the day before. I have not cheated on the protein or carbs once (I have had a couple of days on higher fat but always <2000 cals). I can live without diary (the cream & butter I only started eating when I joined EMF) & I don’t use any form of sugar or AS, but long term I would not want to restrict protein like this. Don’t get me wrong, if I was seeing a consistent result, the low protein is definitely do able & I could live with dropping a bit, 2 weeks of stalling, then dropping a bit more. But to gain 3.5 lb after doing all of the above? I give up.

PS: Pebbles well done on your loss. I am glad it is working for someone

[Pebbles67]

DG, I wish I had something encouraging to say. I am still working my N=1.

If your BMR is 1650, then 20% below that would be 1320. I think you should aim to hit that calorie level for a week and see if it makes a difference.

A few questions?...
Are you eating a "well formulated" ketogenic diet in the words of P & V?
By even the lowest protein formula (Rosedale), You should be eating 55g protein. How about adding protein and bringing fat up to 65-75% for a while? And for that matter how about a few carbs from veggies? I eat a small amt. of veg with each meal. It comes to 20-25 carbs.

Are you eating real food? I was getting too many cals from Bullet Proof Coffee.

Do you eat dairy? I've had some startling results since I dropped it albeit only 2 days ago.

Could you add exercise? Exercise has helped me increase my metabolic rate therefore helping me burn more calories and lose weight. (measured by my GoWearFit)

I hope you can figure this out. We are here to support you.

[demuralist]

DG, wasn't the beginning of your N=1 more successful as far as fat loss is concerned? Do you think you have gotten into NK at all, even at the "lowest" level?

If you do an average for the week of your calories/macros what numbers do you come up with? I believe that the body is not so much receptive (at least regarding fat loss) on a daily basis as on average over time.

[252dlp]

Geo...I HATE cooking of all kinds, but I take one day (mine is Sunday) and I cook my lunches for the week. Last week I baked two packages of chicken thighs and fried up 4 pounds of ground beef (this time patties). I freeze those in individual portions so that I can take out just what I need. This week I'm boiling up some eggs, and I have some of that food from last week still in the freezer. Every evening after dinner I take out what I want for lunch, then in the morning I take out what I want from dinner.

I've even done the ground beef loose so I can make something like a spaghetti sauce or beanless chilli. It sounds like I spend all day cooking on Sunday, but while the chicken is baking I do the beef, and it really doesn't take that long.

Would something like that work for you?

~~~

Demuralist - I tried the Double Choc mate this morning, yum!!

~~~

I bought a NutriBullet yesterday thinking I might try to whirl up some of my veggies. It comes with a small cup which should be perfect for a small portion and if I add an avocado, the fat should stop it from being absorbed too quickly. I have such a hard time digesting the veggies and I really want to get some in. My other option is to cook them to smitherines, lol.

[Black Timber]

You guys are recommending 20% under BMR? Why? This is an incredibly long thread, so I haven't read enough to see the logic behind consuming at such a deficit.

[Ddraig Goch]

Thanks for the support. I appreciate it.

If your BMR is 1650, then 20% below that would be 1320. I think you should aim to hit that calorie level for a week and see if it makes a difference.

You already know my thoughts on BMR. I do not even know if this number is correct but seems to be the most consistent. I do know that in the past, if I eat over 1200 cals I do not lose

A few questions?...

Are you eating a "well formulated" cacogenic diet in the words of P & V?
By even the lowest protein formula (Rosedale), You should be eating 55g protein. How about adding protein and bringing fat up to 65-75% for a while? And for that matter how about a few carbs from veggies? I eat a small amt. of veg with each meal. It comes to 20-25 carbs.

Short answer yes I believe so. I understand from P&V that people who have been low carb for a long time (I have been for a year) tend to have a well adapted protein to glucose pathway hence the reason for keeping my protein low. Again from P&V the low protein range is to protect LBM which I have done (after losing some initially , it has returned to its original amount). I eat spinach with dinner for the nutritional benefits if my protein count allows for it & mushrooms in my broth for taste. I have no great wish to add additional carbs at this point.

Are you eating real food? I was getting too many cals from Bullet Proof Coffee.

I try to rotate a 2 day menu:

B/F (Home made chicken broth with mushrooms & chicken thigh & 25g grass fed butter), lunch (tinned mackerel filet in brine with 1 tsp EVOO) & snacks (2x 1tbsp CO) same for both days.

Dinner 1: 2 tsp butter, 4oz turkey mince, 2 tsp delouise mayo & 4oz frozen spinach

Dinner 2: Cheese Omelette made with 2 whole eggs & 1 yolk, 4oz frozen spinach 1 tsp butter & 20graw cheddar

NB: I did have hot coco with cream for the first 2½ weeks but it was becoming a trigger food so haven’t had it since & upped to CO instead

Do you eat dairy? I've had some startling results since I dropped it albeit only 2 days ago.

Only butter & <1oz raw cheddar now. I notice from your MFP diary for the past few days that you are still eating butter so I assume you do not count this as dairy.

Could you add exercise? Exercise has helped me increase my metabolic rate therefore helping me burn more calories and lose weight. (measured by my GoWearFit)

I walk 6-10 miles a day but don’t consider this to be exercise. I want to start the couch 25k plan but was put off by Mark saying no to chronic cardio (I have started this plan before & cannot do it with my HR<75%)& the PBF LHT exercise plan/ Unfortunately LHT is out for now as I have a shoulder injury & have been advised by the physio not to do any. Right now getting this fixed is my priority.

When I lost in the first 2 weeks I thought I had found the magic formula but obviously not. I don’t understand how, for the first 2 weeks, I can lose consistently then put half of it back on again when I am eating the same except for dropping the cream. The only thing I can think of is that over time I have moved into deeper NK & it doesn’t agree with me.

Any insight based on the above would be gratefully received as I have no great wish to drop this. I just need it to work.