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Thread: Vegetarians 'cut heart risk by 32%'

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    I wonder if the Watchtower society knows he is on the internet?

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    GA & CA
    Ok then, so, is that point, set, match..?
    Last edited by Betorq; 02-07-2013 at 02:33 AM.
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Hey everyone, I haven't read this thread so I might be repeating some things that people already said.

    Vegetarians in this study had a lower rate of CHD than their omnivorous controls, which could mean any number of things, Vegetarians had better non-meat-related dietary quality, and a wide variety of nutrients from magnesium to copper to fiber may have given them a non-vegetarian-related advantage. They also might have been avoiding frier oils and trans fats more, that is something that the study can't really take into account, but technically it is invalid to say that because they were vegetarian then the difference in CHD mortality was due to the fact of vegetarian in its denotation (no meat) rather than its connotation (all of the other things that vegetarians are more likely to do or not do). I'm sure we could produce many more confounding factors.

    2. There was no difference in all-cause mortality! Therefore this study does not provide evidence that a vegetarian diet is healthier than a meat-containing diet. Simple as that. It could be that a vegetarian diet increases your risk of other diseases which reduces your probability of getting CHD because if you die of something old you can't have a heart attack.

    3. It could be all the processed meat. A recent meta-analysis looking at the association between red meat and cardiovascular disease risk concluded that in all of the relevant studies there is no association between fresh red meat consumption and CHD risk, however there is a significant association between processed meat and CHD. Unprocessed red and processed meats and... [Curr Atheroscler Rep. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

    I think that the main risk of processed meat is the fact that it tends to be overcooked (crispy bacon?), and you can find tons of evidence suggesting that modifying the cooking intensity of meat has an impact on disease risk, particularly cancer risk due to the reactive heterocyclic amines formed during high heat cooking. They are also inflammatory and cardiotoxic, so that is perhaps another way that vegetarians have the advantage, but that doesn't entail being a vegetarian to obtain it.

    Is non-processed-meat-atarianism where meat is moderately cooked the way to go? There is no justification from epidemiology that suggests otherwise. There is no rationale that moderate cooking techniques are harmful. If you take processed and overcooked meat out the equation, you can expect the vegetarian CHD advantage to dissipate, and since vegetarians had no advantage with regards to all-cause mortality, you might even expect vegetarian diets to be harmful compared with the Primal Diet. That's only a hypothesis though.
    Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

    Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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