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Thread: How Much Protein is REALLY Necessary page 2

  1. #11
    JoanieL's Avatar
    JoanieL is offline Senior Member
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    I don't know if this will help. When I'm looking for answers to that type of question and finding tons of conflicting recommendations, I generally google and find what both sides of the coin say. So in this case, I might check what the Fed states as a guideline and compare it to a well respected bodybuilding site recommendation. Somewhere between those two lies the truth. You could use it as a range.

    As a note, though pork seems to be kind of put down (except bacon) in these parts, pork loin has a lot of protein and is often on sale because it's a cut that needs to be cooked low and slow.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Your body will use the protein for glucose if you are not consuming carbs. If you want to spare lean mass on a low carb diet, your protein requirements will have to go up.

    Am i wrong, Neckhammer?
    The way I understand it is the body will use Fat when you are not consuming carbs through the process of Gluconeogenesis. This is actually the preferred source of glucose for your brain. You don't want the body to break down protein for its glucose source because this could lead to a catabolic/muscle wasting state. And if you are trying to build lean muscle breaking down protein would not be ideal. That is how I understand it.
    "If man made it, don't eat it" - Jack Lallane

    People say I am on a "crazy" diet. What is so crazy about eating veggies, fruits, seafood and organ meats? Just because I don't eat whole wheat and processed food doesn't make my diet "crazy". Maybe everyone else with a SAD are the "crazy" ones for putting that junk in their system.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    The way I understand it is the body will use Fat when you are not consuming carbs through the process of Gluconeogenesis. This is actually the preferred source of glucose for your brain. You don't want the body to break down protein for its glucose source because this could lead to a catabolic/muscle wasting state. And if you are trying to build lean muscle breaking down protein would not be ideal. That is how I understand it.
    No, that's wrong. Gluconeogenesis is the process in which your body raises blood sugar and converts several tissues into glucose when dietary glucose is insufficient. It's also accomplishing this by breaking down your bodies protein, hence why you cannot be in ketosis with a high intake of dietary protein. So, in essence, doing exactly what you said in the second part.
    nihil

  4. #14
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    Depends on the size and activity level of the person. Too many people consume the wrong types of protein, ie; muscle meats, poultry, bacon, and other inflammatory tryptophan heavy protein sources. Protein is thermogenic, and just as important as carbs for thyroid health, but too many people are consuming too much of the wrong types of protein.

    Milk, cheese, gelatin, these are sources of protein which are anti-stress and beneficial.

    Personally, I get too low protein, but it's just because I have a natural affinity to fruit and sweets and cannot get the proper protein without uncomfortably consuming too many calories day after day. Thinking of starting a cycle, weekly, or every other day in which I get Peat recommended protein of 80-140g per day. Thinking for my height, I might need 140.
    nihil

  5. #15
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    So are you saying that Gluconeogenesis is not the process in which the body will break down fat or protein to create glucose for the body and brain? After breaking down the fat in the liver you are left with ketones. That is the way I have always read about it in my physiology books as well as the Paleo Solution and Primal Blueprint? Robb Wolf has said many times on his podcast that the body prefers fat for gluconeogenesis.
    Last edited by Balance; 01-30-2013 at 10:20 AM.
    "If man made it, don't eat it" - Jack Lallane

    People say I am on a "crazy" diet. What is so crazy about eating veggies, fruits, seafood and organ meats? Just because I don't eat whole wheat and processed food doesn't make my diet "crazy". Maybe everyone else with a SAD are the "crazy" ones for putting that junk in their system.

  6. #16
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    Well people goes astray on this issue; "gluconeogenesis" is a metabolic patway that produces glucose from aminoacids(proteins) that either comes from what you eat or from breakdown of protein in lean tissue. A very little part of the glucose made from gluconeogenesis also comes from glycerol(from fat). That's pretty much everything that you need to know on gluconeogenesis...

  7. #17
    Derpamix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    So are you saying that Gluconeogenesis is not the process in which the body will break down fat or protein to create glucose for the body and brain? That is the way I have always read about it in my physiology books as well as the Paleo Solution and Primal Blueprint? Robb Wolf has said many times on his podcast that the body prefers fat for gluconeogenesis.
    That's not really how you phrased it, and I was also disagreeing with "this is actually the bodies preferred source of glucose for the brain".

    Gluconeogenesis works in unison with lipolysis using your two main stress hormones.
    nihil

  8. #18
    Balance's Avatar
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    Ahh I see. I just thought I remember Robb Wolf mentioning it being preferred on a podcast.
    "If man made it, don't eat it" - Jack Lallane

    People say I am on a "crazy" diet. What is so crazy about eating veggies, fruits, seafood and organ meats? Just because I don't eat whole wheat and processed food doesn't make my diet "crazy". Maybe everyone else with a SAD are the "crazy" ones for putting that junk in their system.

  9. #19
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    You don't "need" very much protein at all to survive.

    20 Potatoes a Day for 60 Days

    As clearly demonstrated in this experiment, you don't need much at all. A potato contains very little protein (<2g/potato), but it is high quality complete protein. This is a very low protein diet, but not only did the man survive, he thrived - his health markers greatly improved on his low protein, mega high carbohydrate, near zero fat diet.

    You don't "need" any carbohydrate at all to survive. Your body can just break down muscle tissue for the glucose it needs.

    You don't "need" any saturated or monounsaturated fat to survive, and very little polyunsaturated fat. 1-2 grams of omega 3 and 2-4 grams of omega 6 is probably all you need a day. Maybe even less. Your body can manufacture SFA and MUFA from excess triglyceride from carbohydrate and protein.

    But living based on "needs" is silly. You should be living trying to optimize your health. Chances are, if you describe your diet using the word "high" or "low," it probably isn't optimal. I recommend doing what I did - start at 33% calories from fat, 33% calories from protein and 33% calories from carbohydrate. Choose all healthy sources (meat, eggs, fruits, starches, vegetables) and adjust accordingly until you feel best. I would up around 30% fat, 30% protein, 40% carbs and I'm fairly sedentary.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  10. #20
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    Well, I guess my hope is to lose weight but keep lean muscle mass. I have 100+ pounds to lose to get to a healthy weight. I don't tend to exercise, as I have very painful joints right now, but do walk about 3 miles throughout the day (pedometer tracking). It says I generally burn around 3000-3500 calories a day just doing what I'm doing.

    My hope is to be eating better, healthier meats but the expense is high. I can manage organic produce but the organic forms of protein is tougher to afford much of. If I only need a small amount, and perhaps not even every day, I might be able to afford that little bit. I also don't have a large fridge/freezer, so buying in bulk isn't an option. I just don't want to do any damage to my system or derail my weight loss because of a lack of protein (from meat). I can always supplement with nuts, etc, if the amount is quite small, but do not want to make any changes until I have a better idea of how much the body needs.

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