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  1. #4741
    Corvidae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    This is controversial with some folks here, but I really think that even if the person never gets to their ideal or even a "normal" weight but sees improvement in other markers of health--no more diabetes meds, healthy blood pressure, enough weight loss to walk again, etc.--then they are still doing amazingly well. I don't get it when people slam someone who's lost 50, 60, or 100 pounds but still isn't thin--it's way, way harder to do that than to go from slightly overweight to healthy weight or heavy normal to a lower body fat percentage (although getting ultra-lean is hard too).
    This is true. I often think of one primal person i've met here in the Bay Area a couple of times who is overweight and hasnt really lost any weight since going primal, but is still enthusiastic about it because it literally saved her life from out of control hyperglycemia, diabetes, and other craziness. I think she said that at times her blood sugar was spiking over 300.

    As for the camp topic: I love the idea, but the logistics of it are significant. Insurance and permits are nuts, of course, but even worse are the PARENTS. It would be a real tough sell getting parents on board with the idea, and even if they are, theyd try and micromanage things from afar. Trust me, I know, Ive worked at camps in the past. Helicopter-parenting gets worse and worse every year, as the generations of entitlement progress in their years, reproduce, and pass the entitlement on to their progeny. Also parents are getting more and more disassociated from nature and the outdoors and what it actually MEANS to be at camp and will beat down your doors making sure youre protecting little Jimmy and Sally from getting any skinned knees.

    Sounds extreme? Its not. I had one parent once threaten to pull her kid out of camp and/or sue and/or get me fired because a rabbit nibbled a hole in her daughter's shirt.
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  2. #4742
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    This is controversial with some folks here, but I really think that even if the person never gets to their ideal or even a "normal" weight but sees improvement in other markers of health--no more diabetes meds, healthy blood pressure, enough weight loss to walk again, etc.--then they are still doing amazingly well. I don't get it when people slam someone who's lost 50, 60, or 100 pounds but still isn't thin--it's way, way harder to do that than to go from slightly overweight to healthy weight or heavy normal to a lower body fat percentage (although getting ultra-lean is hard too).

    I think a farm setup like that would have to focus on overall markers of health, rather than just weigh-ins. Otherwise you'll just get kids engaging in the same disordered stuff because it means they "win" on weigh-in day, whether or not those behaviours are healthful. You want them to leave healthier, which will likely mean slimmer too, rather than just skinny.
    Actually, that's another reason to not call it a fat camp. Because, in the end, the fat is just a symptem. I'd be inclined to have scales around if they want to use them, but the weightloss would be a side-effect of learning how to milk a cow and chase chickens rather than the point of the stay. I mean, things like NOLS trips almost always result in weight loss, but that's really not the point at all. You can't help but lose weight when you're moving all day and only eating what you packed in
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    Originally Posted by TheFastCat: Less is more more or less

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  3. #4743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvidae View Post
    This is true. I often think of one primal person i've met here in the Bay Area a couple of times who is overweight and hasnt really lost any weight since going primal, but is still enthusiastic about it because it literally saved her life from out of control hyperglycemia, diabetes, and other craziness. I think she said that at times her blood sugar was spiking over 300.

    As for the camp topic: I love the idea, but the logistics of it are significant. Insurance and permits are nuts, of course, but even worse are the PARENTS. It would be a real tough sell getting parents on board with the idea, and even if they are, theyd try and micromanage things from afar. Trust me, I know, Ive worked at camps in the past. Helicopter-parenting gets worse and worse every year, as the generations of entitlement progress in their years, reproduce, and pass the entitlement on to their progeny. Also parents are getting more and more disassociated from nature and the outdoors and what it actually MEANS to be at camp and will beat down your doors making sure youre protecting little Jimmy and Sally from getting any skinned knees.

    Sounds extreme? Its not. I had one parent once threaten to pull her kid out of camp and/or sue and/or get me fired because a rabbit nibbled a hole in her daughter's shirt.
    I believe you. I'd probably cater more towards adults just so I don't have to deal with the parents

    (Really, this is all very, very hypothetical. I'm not enough of a people person to want to be in charge of something like this )
    http://cattaillady.com/ My blog exploring the beginning stages of learning how to homestead. With the occasional rant.

    Originally Posted by TheFastCat: Less is more more or less

    And now I have an Etsy store: CattailsandCalendula

  4. #4744
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    Quote Originally Posted by drssgchic View Post
    I believe you. I'd probably cater more towards adults just so I don't have to deal with the parents

    (Really, this is all very, very hypothetical. I'm not enough of a people person to want to be in charge of something like this )
    This is why ventures like this take a team of people. Some are great at working w/ others, but hate the animal poop or have a brown thumb. Keep these ideas for another day - maybe not your piece of land, but another that is for a more "public" type of use. You never know what things the future may hold or who you are growing into - your story may be the one to make all the difference in someone elses life

  5. #4745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mud Flinger View Post
    This is why ventures like this take a team of people. Some are great at working w/ others, but hate the animal poop or have a brown thumb. Keep these ideas for another day - maybe not your piece of land, but another that is for a more "public" type of use. You never know what things the future may hold or who you are growing into - your story may be the one to make all the difference in someone elses life
    Actually, one of the instructors on the NOLS trip said that she'd love to do horsepacking with special-needs people. Obviously, not super-special needs, since it's hard work- but exposing them to nature and animals would be so very good for them. So I have in the back of my head to purchase land somewhere near a place you can pack in and kind of hand it over to her, mostly, to get it to pay for itself. Now to find the land for the initial purchase . . . Oh, and the money to purchase it
    http://cattaillady.com/ My blog exploring the beginning stages of learning how to homestead. With the occasional rant.

    Originally Posted by TheFastCat: Less is more more or less

    And now I have an Etsy store: CattailsandCalendula

  6. #4746
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravyboat View Post
    I didn't start eating total crap until much later, when I was so paralyzed by depression and anxiety that I was completely housebound and did nothing but sit on the computer all night long eating fried food and drinking soda because it provided at least some reward in a time I had absolutely nothing else to feel good about (and then I would sleep all day so I wouldn't have to see or talk to anyone). This interspersed with periods of starvation when my mom would refuse to go grocery shopping for several weeks. So I wouldn't eat for days at a time, punctuated by desperate binges of anything I could find. Plain noodles? Ketchup packets? Off-brand ramen that's been sitting in the cupboard for 6 months? Whatever, I am literally starving and actively blacking out, put it in.
    Sounds exactly like me! I would just hide in the basement and dread having to go out. I remember a day at school when I was around 9. It was lunch or recess, I can't remember, but two girls who were a few years younger than me were calling me fat, kicking me, trying to steal my jacket, so I ran into the school and got screamed at to go back outside by a teacher because at lunch and recess, kids weren't allowed indoors. I spent most of my childhood wishing I was dead.

    Anyone who claims I'm fat because of weakness of character, laziness, or hedonism is invited to die in a fucking fire.
    +1

  7. #4747
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvidae View Post
    This is true. I often think of one primal person i've met here in the Bay Area a couple of times who is overweight and hasnt really lost any weight since going primal, but is still enthusiastic about it because it literally saved her life from out of control hyperglycemia, diabetes, and other craziness. I think she said that at times her blood sugar was spiking over 300.

    As for the camp topic: I love the idea, but the logistics of it are significant. Insurance and permits are nuts, of course, but even worse are the PARENTS. It would be a real tough sell getting parents on board with the idea, and even if they are, theyd try and micromanage things from afar. Trust me, I know, Ive worked at camps in the past. Helicopter-parenting gets worse and worse every year, as the generations of entitlement progress in their years, reproduce, and pass the entitlement on to their progeny. Also parents are getting more and more disassociated from nature and the outdoors and what it actually MEANS to be at camp and will beat down your doors making sure youre protecting little Jimmy and Sally from getting any skinned knees.

    Sounds extreme? Its not. I had one parent once threaten to pull her kid out of camp and/or sue and/or get me fired because a rabbit nibbled a hole in her daughter's shirt.
    That's hilarious! Helicopter parents who manage their "precious cherubs" from afar is damn right on the money. It's the equivalent of Stallone's "Stop or my mom will shoot". That would've been unthinkable in the late 60s/early 70s when I was a kid...unthinkable!
    "After all we did for Britain, selling all that corduroy and making it swing, and all we got was a bit of tin on a piece of leather, an MBE." --George Harrison

  8. #4748
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bioletti View Post
    That's hilarious! Helicopter parents who manage their "precious cherubs" from afar is damn right on the money. It's the equivalent of Stallone's "Stop or my mom will shoot". That would've been unthinkable in the late 60s/early 70s when I was a kid...unthinkable!
    Even when I was a kid in the 80s, it was pretty rare. If you got in trouble at school, guaranteed you were going to be in trouble at home, and no way were your folks bailing you out. Also, it was still normal in my neighbourhood to be kicked out of the house and spend the whole day running wild. I used to be covered in scrapes and bruises, and it was awesome.
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  9. #4749
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuhPrincess View Post
    One thing I learned from Kruse and others who discuss Leptin Resistance is this: When your brain isn't properly signaling to the Leptin in your fat cells, you become a sugar-burner. Your brain isn't properly telling your body to burn fat; rather it keeps signaling it to STORE fat for some reason.
    This! I've read Taubes and it makes sense, in a way; in some people, the body's metabolism can get disrupted and the overeating is a SYMPTOM of this, not the CAUSE. The body is making "get fatter" priority 1 over "nourish my cells". The excess fat acts like a tumor, eating up all the nutrients, especially carbs, which we are of course instructed BY OUR DOCTORS to eat six times a day in the form of heart-healthy-whole-grains, Kashi cereals, baked (not fried! Fat is bad!) potatoes, juice, and Fiber One bars. So the fat person eats more just to get nourishment into the lean tissue which is literally STARVING inside the adipose tissue and is labeled a glutton.

    The tragedy of the 19-year-old girl is that even though I feel this perfect storm of metabolic derangement (CW; fat camps; dysfunctional home situation; losing the genetic lotto) is not her fault, she will most likely die, and soon if her organs are failing, in terrible agony; and she will suffer terribly and go into her grave thinking that she is a weak-willed glutton who did this to herself. There's the worst tragedy of it all.

  10. #4750
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    Any chance excerpts from this thread could replace the front page stories of the UK tabloids about the poor girl? Would be nice.

    She started gaining weight at 5 when her father died. Her mother has such serious health problems that her daughter is her registered carer. In 2008 she was the subject of headlines about being 'Britain's fattest teenager' at 33 stone, went to a US 'fat camp', lost about half her weight in some absurdly short period of time, came home, had her success celebrated... and I'm not sure what happened next, but it sounds as though the support melted away. And now she's somewhere between 45 and 60 stone (depending on which story you read), unable to get out of bed and suffering organ failure. (Multiply stone by 14 to get lbs.)

    Would be nice to find someone to tar and feather...

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