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  1. #4251
    Alex Good's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spubba View Post
    Oh by the way Alex, it might help if we laid out some ground rules so we know we're all on the same page.

    1. At what BF%/BMI is someone considered a non-person?
    2. As a non-person, is this individual eligible to vote, use public transportation, or are there restrictions on this too (only counts as 3/5 of a person, must sit in the back of the bus, must use separate rest room facility, etc.) Do non-persons carry a special Fatty ID Card?
    3. Is there a public duty to shame those above a certain BF%? If so, what are the wages for the Body Police and how can one join the Body Police? What are the qualifications?
    4. Is it mandated in your area that all individuals carry a Weight Card with them at all times, issued by a physician, so that they may vote/use public transport/appear in public without being shamed, if they happen to be a "borderline case"? Did you ask to see this non-person's Weight Card prior to the shaming?
    5. Any other special requirements (burkas, gray pajamas, etc.) required for overweight non-persons when appearing in public, in your country? I need to know, in case I have to travel there, although it wouldn't be by choice, since I prefer not to give my money to oppressive or terrorist regimes.
    6. If a non-person has lost a significant amount of weight but is still over the BMI limit due to muscle mass/excess skin, how soon after their excision surgery do they become a person? Is it before or after their recovery period when they no longer need special accomodations/bandages/medications?
    6. If a non-person is in the process of losing a significant amount of weight, do they receive counseling or guidance regarding how their lives will change once they regain status as a full person and can appear in public/vote/eat in restaurants again?
    7. You mentioned that you may have overweight family members. Are they allowed to attend gatherings, or do you keep them locked up in the basement until such time as it's appropriate to go outside for the whipping/stoning ritual?

    I thought you and Fiercehunter could go ahead and lay these out in numbers for us, so those of us who are less than perfect/still on our Primal journeys can get the fuck off this board and come back once we're no longer disgusting fatties. As Mark would have it, of course. There's a lot of confusion here and I'd like to get it cleared up.
    I hate stupid people.

    1) I was condemning the laziness, not the weight.
    2) The back of the bus is better.
    3) There is a public duty to shame people who think being obese is a good thing.
    4) Weight card? Where the hell did this come from?
    5) Just mind the elevator weight limits.
    6) Why on earth would anyone get a cosmetic surgery?
    6(2)) They get counselling once they fit through the doors. No house calls.
    7) That was a reference to my family being of higher birth. And while on that note, today's rich people are not of higher birth, they're just trash with money. It's one of the things that sicken me about modern civilization.
    In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

  2. #4252
    Alex Good's Avatar
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    Oh and can everyone just assume that I'm being sarcastic or ironic or something similar to that from now on? Because generally, such as in this case, I am. I suppose understanding sarcasm requires a functioning brain.

    That was for insulting me.
    In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

  3. #4253
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    'I was just kidding.'
    Resort of the willfully obtuse.

  4. #4254
    Alex Good's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabine View Post
    'I was just kidding.'
    Resort of the willfully obtuse.
    Why yes I am annoyingly jerky. It's one of my finer qualities.
    In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

  5. #4255
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    Let me say that I used to think as Alex does; I was just decent enough not to say it out loud. Well, except maybe in family gatherings ... that was before my mother, grandmother, & great-grandmother all got fat in one decade.

    A LOT of people think this way. It's a logical consequence of a wrong assumption: that people are fat because they are too gluttonous to eat less and too lazy to move more.

    It's what the government, the medical establishment, the school, the Girl Scouts, PBS, NPR, and our mamas tell us. So people believe it.

    The reality is that people get sick in MANY ways because of our SAD way of eating. Some get cancer, if their genes are right for that. Others get MS, ALS, or other chronic/terminal, debilitating diseases. Others get fat.

    I often think that those who get fat are luckier in some ways - they often don't get the chronic horrible diseases like all the AIDs that run in my family. Of course, there's nothing lucky about the fact that people consider them a blight on the earth.

    The only difference between someone with obesity and someone with ALS is the genes that determined what disease they would get from their SAD diet. None of them started out eating their heads off. That comes when the body won't listen to leptin say "You've got enough fat already!" and instead thinks it's starving, so it yells "EAT CARBS EAT CARBS EAT CARBS" all. frickin. day. It can be ignored for an hour, 3 hours, 12 hours, but eventually you go nuts and have to give in. You can't say no 24/7/365/78.2. If you say yes just once, the cravings double in intensity, and you have already eaten too much bad crap.

    (It's very much like trying not to breathe, or a person with Tourette's trying not to tic. You can force yourself to ignore the urge when needed, for a long time when necessary, or for a very prolonged time with training. But eventually your body just knocks you out and takes over the breathing for you. I remember many times when I felt like my brain just shut down for half an hour, and I suddenly realized I'd eaten almost an entire cookie cake and had to buy another one for the end-of-the-year party. I would spend 23hrs, 30m of every day beating myself up and saying no no no no and then my brain would shut down for half an hour and do me in again.)

    (At one point, I was eating just HALF A SERVING OF WHEAT a day. As soon as I stopped - it was the ONLY change I made in my diet - I started losing weight for the first time in almost ten years.)

    If someone is ever fortunate enough to find, and be in a place to listen to, the truth about diet & health, and starts eating *more* fat and more protein and *less* "healthy whole grains," then lo and behold! the urges to eat crap stop. The weight stops increasing, the pain & diseases & conditions start decreasing, and eventually, after a lot of tweaking to figure out how to undo the years (no - generations) of SAD, weight sometimes starts coming off, faster for some than others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Good View Post
    Saw my first go-cart shopper today. It was round and too lazy to get up and walk. I gave it a withering stare but it only swelled up further.
    I fear for the future of the Maritimes. Sure there have always been a few fat people here (most of them related to me in some way...) but they were always tough enough to walk (and do everything else...) in between gout attacks. Damned commoners can't handle their weight.
    The biggest bone I have to pick with you here is that this person is likely not too lazy to get up and walk. (S)he was likely too much in pain, too fatigued, and too incredibly uncomfortable to get up and walk.

    I know thin, attractive people who can't even get to the grocery store because of fatigue, depression, and/or social phobia. It's not because they're too anti-social or lazy. Weight is not the only reason not to be able to walk around the grocery store to shop.

    There are many, many, MANY forms of broken from the crap we do (often with the best of intentions) to ourselves. Obesity is one form of broken, and being broken in that way does not mean you're lazy anymore than a double amputee (from being attacked by a shark while saving a drowning girl) is lazy for riding in a mobility device.


    Alex, you are RIGHT that it is sad - VERY SAD - that mobility devices are coming to your neck of the woods. Where you're wrong is blaming it on the people who listen to their doctors, prime ministers, and grandmas.

    I found it very helpful to change my attitude towards fat people (and alcoholics & even drug addicts, as I found myself becoming unable to stop my own sugar addiction and realizing I wasn't so very different) from one of disgust & anger to one of sadness & compassion, and directing my anger away from the *victims* and towards those in authority who should know better how to fix the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Good View Post
    1) I was condemning the laziness, not the weight.
    I hope you come to see you were wrong for assuming the person was lazy. Unless you've been morbidly obese *and* suffering from comorbid illness, you have no idea how much effort it would have taken that person to walk the store.
    3) There is a public duty to shame people who think being obese is a good thing.
    Straw man. No one in that store was doing any such thing. No one here is. That's like saying there is a public duty to shame people who think cancer is a good thing. They are DISEASES that result from unnatural conditions combining with genetic inheritance, and you have little control over which happens to you if you don't change the conditions. The problem here is thinking that obesity is caused by overeating. It is not. It is caused by eating the Food Pyramid, and SOME people get obese from that, while others get other diseases. No one emerges unscathed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    But I do want to speak up and let fat people who might be reading this board know that at least some people around here think this attitude is disgusting and that people deserve dignity and respect whatever their body size. Whatever you do to improve your health and your life is awesome, and I'm happy to welcome you to this community.
    You betcha.

    It's good to have the opportunity to have this conversation to make sure the record is clear - EVERYONE is welcome here.
    Last edited by MamaGrok; 04-29-2012 at 06:54 PM.
    5'4" 36yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
    Starting: 185 lbs (March '10)
    Current: 132.5 lbs
    Goal: 135 lbs (Hit Jan '13)
    Beating bingeing since 10/31/11 on my Leptin Reset journey

  6. #4256
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    Alex is young and most of what he says is to get a reaction. I stopped taking the vast majority of what he says seriously. That said, he can be entertaining at times. Of course, I do agree with the other posters (and this thread has renewed my MDA crush on Spuba and Owly and Naiad and dang, MamaGrok is still rocking that outfit and...okay, I digress...) that this kind of fat shaming has chased far too many members away.

    Time and place Alex. Save it for your journal or the less serious threads where talking out of your ass is encouraged.
    somehow I manage to leave my intelligence and decorum at the door wherever I go. I doubt your journal will be an exception to that - not on the rug

    What the F&#* is a decorum? - Mr. Anthony

  7. #4257
    Alex Good's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MamaGrok View Post
    I hope you come to see you were wrong for assuming the person was lazy. Unless you've been morbidly obese *and* suffering from comorbid illness, you have no idea how much effort it would have taken that person to walk the store.


    Straw man. No one in that store was doing any such thing. No one here is. That's like saying there is a public duty to shame people who think cancer is a good thing. They are DISEASES that result from unnatural conditions combining with genetic inheritance, and you have little control over which happens to you if you don't change the conditions. The problem here is thinking that obesity is caused by overeating. It is not. It is caused by eating the Food Pyramid, and SOME people get obese from that, while others get other diseases. No one emerges unscathed.
    First of all, I was morbidly obese with gluten problems resulting in bloating (the kind that feels like the flu), depression and various other types of insanity. So yes, I can say that this guy who had no signs of any illness except for obesity was lazy. I walked the five miles home from school every day when I weighed more than him and he couldn't even walk around a friggin store. I even had to walk that far once with a recently sewed up chest wound. In shorts and a t-shirt. In the middle of winter.

    Also, as I've said, the majority of the things I say are jokes. Many of the numbered things a few posts back have elements of humour to them.
    In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

  8. #4258
    Alex Good's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canio6 View Post
    Alex is young and most of what he says is to get a reaction. I stopped taking the vast majority of what he says seriously. That said, he can be entertaining at times.
    This times over 9000.
    In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

  9. #4259
    Alex Good's Avatar
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    My youth is proven by the fact that....... Every day I'm shufflin'.

    In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

  10. #4260
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    Alex, you just seem to be crying out for attention to me.
    Note that I have not yet insulted you. Beware my wit before you give a smart-ass response.
    Last edited by karatepig; 04-29-2012 at 08:51 PM.

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