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Thread: How My Primal Instincts Led Me to... Veganism page 35

  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by patski View Post
    Lastly, I find it offensive (and it's hard to offend me) and cruel to imply that vegetarianism makes one more compassionate.
    I don't understand why everyone on this forum says things like that. I'm not advocating vegetarianism or veganism, but what's wrong with thinking that one choice is morally superior to another? For example: I don't go around killing innocent people, which makes me more compassionate than those who do.

    If the whole vegan spiel were true (not that it is) - if that way of eating dramatically reduced our impact on the environment and animal suffering (and improved our health to boot) - then of course it would be morally superior.
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  2. #342
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    It's true that we could all greatly decrease our impact on the planet by eating less and eating lower quality foods. It would certainly impact human health were we to eat fewer calories and less protein than we need for optimum health. But it's also true that we could decrease our impact with some form of population control. In fact, in the absence of population control, it doesn't matter how inadequate a diet humans decide to eat. The population will continue to grow to use up all available resources.

    I don't think I've ever heard a vegan speak of population control.

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalHunter View Post
    If the whole vegan spiel were true (not that it is) - if that way of eating dramatically reduced our impact on the environment and animal suffering (and improved our health to boot) - then of course it would be morally superior.
    Well first off it's not true. It's been well established that vegetarian and vegan meals still require animal death and suffering. The trail of blood may stop at the plate but it doesn't magically disappear.

    Whether or not something is moral is subjective. Eating an animal for food isn't immoral or moral in and of itself. It's just natural for many species including us. Allowing said animal to languish in suffering and sickness while it's alive is in my subjective opinion immoral.

    Being able to care about how our food was raised is a luxury for sure. However don't I think honoring the compassionate side of our natures is any more unnatural than stuffing hundreds of thousands of chickens into a warehouse with each of them having the space equivalent to a piece of printer paper, beaks cut off, wire cutting into their feet, while their eggs roll down a metal grate. There's nothing natural about raising an animal for food under torturous conditions.

  4. #344
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    PrimalHunter: You don't go around talking about how moral you are for NOT killing people, do you? There's the difference. I don't think anyone in their right mind should walk around spewing verbal diarrhea about how MORAL they are, or how COMPASSIONATE they are. Those people who do are usually complete self-righteous, self-important assholes.

    Moral according to whom? Compassionate according to whom? Who sets the standards?

    If we're going to go there, then I think it's immoral NOT to eat animals, as to do so is to put your own body and mind in serious jeopardy. Of course, many would disagree with me, and here in lies the 'problem': morality is subjective.
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  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by patski View Post
    PrimalHunter: You don't go around talking about how moral you are for NOT killing people, do you? There's the difference. I don't think anyone in their right mind should walk around spewing verbal diarrhea about how MORAL they are, or how COMPASSIONATE they are. Those people who do are usually complete self-righteous, self-important assholes.

    Moral according to whom? Compassionate according to whom? Who sets the standards?

    If we're going to go there, then I think it's immoral NOT to eat animals, as to do so is to put your own body and mind in serious jeopardy. Of course, many would disagree with me, and here in lies the 'problem': morality is subjective.
    I think there is a certain immorality in denying the place on the food chain into which we were born. No person can turn him or herself into an herbivore, regardless of how much more moral they think it might be to be prey rather than a predator.

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by patski View Post
    PrimalHunter: You don't go around talking about how moral you are for NOT killing people, do you?
    No, I don't feel the need to say anything because it's so obvious. But if people were committing murders left and right and saw nothing wrong with that, then yeah, I'd tell them it wasn't moral (or I would, if I knew they wouldn't kill me).

    Quote Originally Posted by patski View Post
    I don't think anyone in their right mind should walk around spewing verbal diarrhea about how MORAL they are, or how COMPASSIONATE they are. Those people who do are usually complete self-righteous, self-important assholes.
    People had to speak out against slavery and such, or it wouldn't have changed.

    But I've never heard a vegan talking about how great they are personally, just that their diet is healthier and morally superior. And that's only online. The few vegans I know in real life never even talk about why they're vegan or try to convince anyone to change. I guess someone could come off as a self-righteous, self-important asshole if their delivery was wrong, but I haven't seen that.

    Quote Originally Posted by patski View Post
    Moral according to whom? Compassionate according to whom? Who sets the standards?
    I agree that morality is subjective, but there are a few things that decent people tend to agree on. I'd like to think we can all agree that it's better not to torture animals, all other things being equal. Of course, primal people know that other things are not equal, that we need animal products, that you don't have to torture animals to eat them, etc. But not everyone knows that.
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  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalHunter View Post
    People had to speak out against slavery and such, or it wouldn't have changed.

    But I've never heard a vegan talking about how great they are personally, just that their diet is healthier and morally superior. And that's only online. The few vegans I know in real life never even talk about why they're vegan or try to convince anyone to change. I guess someone could come off as a self-righteous, self-important asshole if their delivery was wrong, but I haven't seen that.



    I agree that morality is subjective, but there are a few things that decent people tend to agree on. I'd like to think we can all agree that it's better not to torture animals, all other things being equal. Of course, primal people know that other things are not equal, that we need animal products, that you don't have to torture animals to eat them, etc. But not everyone knows that.
    Speaking out against slavery and acting puffed up because one is vegan are not even worth comparing. They aren't even close. I don't think there are many alive who would now claim slavery was a fantastic idea. Eating animals is a whole other game, and it is one of intense emotion. Vegans/vegetarians have a very, very different view of the position of animals and their relationship to them. But a 'human' issue, like slavery induces an entirely different set of morals. Unless one is a complete misanthrope, most people would agree slavery is wrong, killing is wrong, war is wrong, etc. Human vs. human conflict. But this is humans and our relationship to our food. This is what vegans/vegetarians do not see. Animals are their equals, their friends, sentient beings who also feel emotion and should never be tortured for any reason, least of all killed for our sustenance.

    Vegans/vegetarians also love to pull from history and use Einstein or Da Vinci as examples of great people who didn't consume animals. This is totally bunk and absurd. Hitler was a vegetarian IIRC.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/w...rian-diet.html

    (Amazing how Hitler referred to broth as 'corpse tea', but look at the atrocities he ordered. Un-fucking-believable!)

    I have seen/heard stuck up vegetarians/vegans who pride themselves as morally superior, in person as well, but mostly online. The internet is a safe space to act like a dick and not have to deal with any real consequence or confrontation.

    It is absolutely better not to torture animals.

    If people don't know there are better ways to consume animals (ie. animals that are humanely raised/slaughtered) then they are in a very, very sad state of being.

    My blathering amounts to this: what you choose to eat or not eat does NOT make you a better human being. Period.
    Last edited by patski; 03-28-2013 at 07:52 AM.
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  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    I think there is a certain immorality in denying the place on the food chain into which we were born.
    It's sort of a snide attitude. The world made me this way, but I know better. I don't know how immoral I find it, but I find it offensive and dishonest.

  9. #349
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    Plants are life also, trying the best they can to protect themselves against the herbivorous vegans that want to eat them! Nobody, except me, talks about that the plants qua life should have rights too…

  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Plants are life also, trying the best they can to protect themselves against the herbivorous vegans that want to eat them! Nobody, except me, talks about that the plants qua life should have rights too…
    Quarry

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