How My Primal Instincts Led Me to... Veganism page 17

[magnolia1973]

I took Stephanie's comments to mean that no one should feel bad for eating an animal because food chain-wise we are superior to them.

I don't know about that....I mean, a shark can eat us. A pack of dogs can kill a child in no time. That should probably actually make us feel better about eating animals. Of course we freak out when an animal kills a human. We do a great job controlling nature so we stay high on the food chain.

They're food. It's okay to think so.

For me, the worst part of meat is confinement, because I see horses enjoy themselves and express being unhappy and happy. I know that any being can understand issues of being uncomfortable in a moment. They can also be bored and become mentally unglued when confined. And they can have pretty sophisticated social groupings and relationships. They express empathy, anger, joy. They are more than just food and can suffer from pain. We don't have to make raise them in poor conditions to feed ourselves. It is OK to realize their future is to be killed for our purposes, but I don't think it is right to deny them natural conditions in an effort to be more efficient.

[canio6]

I don't know about that....I mean, a shark can eat us. A pack of dogs can kill a child in no time. That should probably actually make us feel better about eating animals. Of course we freak out when an animal kills a human. We do a great job controlling nature so we stay high on the food chain.

Certainly, but given we have not claws or huge fangs, we have to use what we do have - intellect, tool making, tactics, the control you speak of.

For me, the worst part of meat is confinement, because I see horses enjoy themselves and express being unhappy and happy. I know that any being can understand issues of being uncomfortable in a moment. They can also be bored and become mentally unglued when confined. And they can have pretty sophisticated social groupings and relationships. They express empathy, anger, joy. They are more than just food and can suffer from pain. We don't have to make raise them in poor conditions to feed ourselves. It is OK to realize their future is to be killed for our purposes, but I don't think it is right to deny them natural conditions in an effort to be more efficient.

I do not deny that animals have feelings, emotions, etc. I am not saying to lock them all in tiny cages. I buy the most humane meat I can find/afford (not as great as I would like around here). I also never feel bad about eating meat. Never have, never will (at least as far as I can tell).

[RichMahogany]

I'm pretty sure you know what Stephanie meant. There is a difference between technically being an animal and 'acting like an animal' (generally with a negative connotation). This is not to say that all animals are bad or all humans are good, but the distinction is there and nit-picking over semantics is lame.

I disagree that I'm nit-picking over semantics. The view that denies the fact that we're every bit a part of the rest of the "natural" world and subject to all its laws the same as the rest is responsible for a lot of our problems. It's easy to bend the world to our will, bulldoze the rainforest, build CAFO's when the world is something remote that we put ourselves above. I do legitimately take offense to the claim that humans aren't animals, aren't apes, aren't subject to the laws of nature and the like.

That being said, ridiculous 80's references are always funny.

[Stephanie]

I'm pretty sure you know what Stephanie meant. There is a difference between technically being an animal and 'acting like an animal' (generally with a negative connotation). This is not to say that all animals are bad or all humans are good, but the distinction is there and nit-picking over semantics is lame.

Yeah that...

Okay I get the science and biology part. Gosh.

But no I'm not an animal. I don't pee outside, nor do I lick my hoochie for bath time. I don't sniff butts to say hello, or eat grass from a field.

If you wanna be an animal, good for you. I will be a woman, who takes showers, shaves, wears a little makeup, and worships Jesus, and enjoys things like a bed, and a glass of wine, and all the other stuff us humans do.

BTW, I'm very stubborn, you will never convince me...

Carnio is that a gun in your profile pic? Just curious.

[canio6]

That being said, ridiculous 80's references are always funny.

Well, I can't argue with that

[canio6]

Carnio is that a gun in your profile pic? Just curious.

Yup, it's an M-16. That is a picture of me heading off to guard duty in Iraq on Christmas some years ago.

[Stephanie]

I'm pretty sure you know what Stephanie meant. There is a difference between technically being an animal and 'acting like an animal' (generally with a negative connotation). This is not to say that all animals are bad or all humans are good, but the distinction is there and nit-picking over semantics is lame.

Yeah that...

Okay I get the science and biology part. Gosh.

But no I'm not an animal. I don't pee outside, nor do I lick my hoochie for bath time. I don't sniff butts to say hello, or eat grass from a field.

If you wanna be an animal, good for you. I will be a woman, who takes showers, shaves, wears a little makeup, and worships Jesus, and enjoys things like a bed, and a glass of wine, and all the other stuff us humans do.

BTW, I'm very stubborn, you will never convince me...

Carnio is that a gun in your profile pic? Just curious.

[magnolia1973]

I think though, that the attitude that animals are just food are what has led to such inhumane (and unhealthy) methods of producing food. We raise chickens in such bad conditions that they need drugs to survive to slaughter..... We've gotten to "anything goes" in terms of raising meat that we are beginning to produce a poor quality product that also has a very negative impact on the environment.

To be fair, I don't think people think about where their food comes from, and farming is a hard way to make a living. But it would behoove us to remember that animals can indeed suffer from mental and physical pain during their existence and not just view them as inanimate meat factories. And, we have much to gain, healthwise, from allowing them a natural existence.

[janie]

You may be stubborn......but that doesn't mean you're not an animal, sweetie. Humans fit the biological description even if they don't all do the things you mention.

[canio6]

To be fair, I don't think people think about where their food comes from, and farming is a hard way to make a living. But it would behoove us to remember that animals can indeed suffer from mental and physical pain during their existence and not just view them as inanimate meat factories. And, we have much to gain, healthwise, from allowing them a natural existence.

Agreed. I just stop agreeing when someone (not you) suggests that due to animals being lovely, fluffy, wonderful creatures I am a douche for eating them. I'm a douche for plenty of reasons - that isn't one