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  1. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ddraig Goch View Post
    BTW it seems PSMF is not a quick fix either but I guess you know that. I will do it when I have emptied the freezer & cupboards of all non grass fed meats/fish. (It will probably be when my local farm slaughter their next lot of cows which wil be a while yet as they have just done some)
    Yeah. I think the best course of action is to save this for a bit. I'm leaning toward one more cycle of UD/DD. I'm not really looking forward to low fat again. Also, not sure what I think about his idea of a "carb refeed". I can see calorie "refeed", but carbs do not appear to be my friend. Or, maybe my problem is that I have basically eliminated them for the last 3 months

    Quote Originally Posted by Ddraig Goch View Post
    Meanwhile I am taking a break from worrying about actually losing. I just want to get to grips with fasting long term for health reasons. I am tracking to gather data but have stopped worrying about the results.
    I wish I could be so zen

    Quote Originally Posted by Ddraig Goch View Post
    PS DO you think 4 weeks is long enough to know if something is not working?
    I don't know. Seemed like a month should be ample time, depending on where one came from. Maybe because I've been at this diet game for so long, 1 month truly isn't enough. What I find so frustrating is that I still have 30 pounds to lose. I would expect at least some initial "good" results. It's not like I'm working on "vanity" pounds here... But, maybe, after losing ~ 80 pounds (over the past 5 years, so not the speed of light), my body (like my mind) is just plumb tired.

  2. #192
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    So sorry you aren't feeling well Hope the day got better.

  3. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMS123 View Post
    Or, maybe my problem is that I have basically eliminated them for the last 3 months.
    I have eliminated carbs for over a year now & have no intention of going back. If I did a carb refeed it would be fruit & veg only but I’m not sure I want to. I need to get the book & read it properly but its quite expensive for an ebook I think so will wait until I am ready to start. I think the idea for the refeed is basically a leptin reset so I’m going to have a look at that protocol as well. As with anything, I think you need to pick & mix a bit.

    Carb Refeeding and Weight Loss

    The Deload Week: What It Is, How to Do it, and Why It Might Help You Get Stronger

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS123 View Post
    I wish I could be so zen .
    Necessary for sanity

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS123 View Post
    What I find so frustrating is that I still have 30 pounds to lose. …... It's not like I'm working on "vanity" pounds here.
    It must be a thing about the last 30lbs. I’m glad it’s not just me but sorry for you. That’s why I’m taking 15 weeks out to do other things & focus on health. I’ve found it interesting that the ADF thread is all about weight loss & no one seems to mention the health benefits if you do it long term. Can't wait to get my hands on Michael Moseley’s book which I think goes into it in detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS123 View Post
    So sorry you aren't feeling well Hope the day got better.
    It did thanks, I didn’t gain & my first real DD is going well. I have also added to my spreadsheet to show how long my fast & eating window actually are for inspiration.

    PS: I'm glad you decided to do JUDDD for another cycle. At least you will know if its good for you then
    Last edited by Ddraig Goch; 04-04-2013 at 05:30 AM. Reason: links added

  4. #194
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    Let me know what you think of the Moseley book. Neither of my libraries has a copy, although it's only $10 on kindle, so some day it may end up in my library

    Am reading Durkan (my library did have this ebook), as he was often mentioned in PSMF. While I don't agree with a lot of his premises (mostly from personal experience), he does have some interesting things to say. One thing, and I haven't gotten to the details yet, is that he mentions a transition phase after you lose all of your weight before you go to maintenance. He says 5 days (of whatever this phase it that I haven't read yet) for each 1 pound you lose. Makes sense. After that, you do his version of 6:1 (his is 1 day of almost total protein, 7 of "normal" eating); Moseley and others in the fasting world end up with something similar.

  5. #195
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    Makes sense. I read somewhere that doing a leptin reset after a VLC diet helps get the metabolism back on track. I had a quick look at it yesterday & it seems to be mainly extreme paelo & would work after my version of PSMF. Not sure about eating first thing though or his rule of no exercise before breakfast as I prefer to exercise then, other wise it tends not to happen. Still, Jack Kruse is not against IF just after breakfast so it might work for me.

    When I do PSMF I'm going to do 12 week RMR & BF tests. When my 15 weeks are up I will see how the freezer stocks are then work out a start date (I want to clear the freezer out so every thing is grass fed etc before I start). Now I have taken the pressure off for the next few weeks I'm actually looking forward to it.

    It's amazing how long its taking to get through protein now I'm not eating much. It just goes to show how much money is wasted on food we don't actually need.

    Re Dukan. He was very big here in the UK just before the royal weeding as Catherine's mum did Dukan to lose weight. Funny but it didn't last long. You never her of him now. Can't say I know much about it though. I will be interested in your synopsis when you have finished.

    Mosley has gone onto 6:1 now I believe, as he has no more weight to lose. I'm not sure if the health benefits would continue with such a low Fast turnover. That's why I want to read the book.

    PS: Hope JUDDD is going ok.

  6. #196
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    Carb refeeds

    I came across this post today:

    Quote Originally Posted by tatertot View Post
    Everyone says we need to be insulin sensitive, otherwise we become obese diabetics, but when eating a ketogenic diet, if we aren't insulin resistant, we will die of hypoglycemia (low blood sugar). We need to maintain our ability to be insulin resistant when we aren't loading our blood with glucose.

    It seems then, that if we eat low carb all the time, we become (out of necessity) insulin resistant. Then when we eat some carbs, we don't have the sensitivity to deal with the glucose.

    I'm thinking carb refeeds fill the need for maintaining insulin sensitivity and a hack like the potato diet even makes more sense when used as a sort of once or twice a year insulin sensitivity reset.
    It makes a lot of sense I guess, so I won't close my mind to refeeds in the future just need to get more research done

  7. #197
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    Last edited by Ddraig Goch; 04-04-2013 at 10:53 PM. Reason: add link

  8. #198
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    Thu 4/4

    Completed my first 36hr fast today. It was easier than I expected & I could have carried on but I have chicken that needs eating up (bought before I started portioning up before freezing) & with eating less protein it takes longer to use up

  9. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ddraig Goch View Post
    Carb refeeds

    I came across this post today:



    It makes a lot of sense I guess, so I won't close my mind to refeeds in the future just need to get more research done
    Something about the logic seems "off", but I'm so unscientific, I can't reason it out. I feel like since I've gone VLC, my previous IR has been "cured". However, my seemingly inability to not digest carbs well is perhaps (although perhaps not) a problem. Also, does "excess" protein fulfill the same thing? So, if one does PSMF, eating more than the 50or so g of protein some of seem to have to stay at, are we okay? [Maybe a nonsensical question]

    On your post below, I had read that, but not really (if that makes sense). I have always like PK's posts, though I don't come across them much since I rarely venture beyond the 4 or 5 journals I frequent.

  10. #200
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    Another light bulb moment

    Onthe assumption thst the BMR calculator in MFP is as good as any (it uses the Mifflin-St. Jeor equations to estimate BMR which is believed to be more accurate than the more commonly used Harris-Benedict equation) my BMR comes out at 1413 cals.

    To lose a lb of fat a week I have to under eat by 500 cals which means I can only eat 913 cals/day to lose weight effectively.

    No wonder the scales are bouncing up and down in the same spot if I eat 1200 cals/day

    NB: Of course I knew all of this really. I just got bogged down by the cries of "Starvation Mode", "You MUST east no less than BMR-20%". That might work for those with a higher BMR than mine but not for me.

    NB2: Yes I am applying CICO but I LIKE that theory so those who don't please go away & leave me to my delusional self.


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