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Thread: Journal of a Weary Dragon page 17

  1. #161
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    Yesterday I did a really stupid thing. Went to buy another batch of ground turkey & discovered ground beef on offer (both supermarket, not grass fed). Short of money, thinking primal (i.e. beef) & thinking I was adding fat without adding fat I bought enough for 35 portions (it was price). Why stupid. Well it doesn’t taste as good (probably because I’m not used to it) , because it’s not grass fed I forgot I should have bought the lean stuff & ADDED fat & I also forgot the reason for ground turkey in the first place – it’s boosts the metabolism.


    Next time will GMOW – not get sucked in by the sale sign or confuse primal principles

    UPDATE: Have just read
    Eat Like A Predator, Not Like Prey & it says chicken & poultry have a high omega 6 content (the reason I have given up walnuts). Having looked around the www this post suggests the opposite & other sites say turkey is OK because it is leaner than chicken.
    /
    Last edited by Ddraig Goch; 03-29-2013 at 02:22 PM. Reason: update

  2. #162
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    Further thoughts on IF

    To understand the basis of IF for weight loss we need to understand how fat is mobilised (something I had forgotten).

    After a feed, insulin and fatty acids are elevated (NB: this is known as the post prandial phase - more nutrients are being stored than are being released from storage). The body is in the fed state and there's zero fat burning going on. The body is relying completely on glucose oxidation during the hours following the meal - one thing to remember here is that carb oxidisation prevents fat oxidisation so if no carbs are present fat oxidisation would presumably continue unabated (protein oxidisation is a separate thing and, providing it is moderate in quantity, would have no impact on fat oxodisation). (NB: Protein oxidisation is dependent on the amount of protein being ingested & there is a time lag so over eating or under eating protein slightly on one day should not affect oxidisation levels. In theory one could under eat on a DD & over eat on an UD slightly & get away with it whilst remain in NK & not affect LBM - one to test with the ketone strips)

    One way of measuring this is via the respiratory quotient (RQ). An RQ of 1.0 denotes pure carbohydrate metabolism ("storage mode"), while 0.7 denotes pure fat metabolism. To put this into perspective, consider that RQ is 0.95-1.0 for about 1.5-2 hours after a meal, 0.82-0.85 after overnight fasting (12hrs) and 0.72-0.8 after 16 hours of fasting.

    As the hours go by and the nutrients from the meal are done being absorbed (NB: Post absorptive stage - hormone levels change and the body starts shifting to an overall catabolic state ie the body is releasing more nutrients from storage than are being stored), RQ drops in conjunction with insulin. There's a shift towards fat burning and mobilization of stored fat.

    I have been re-reading Mark’s take on IF.

    Why Fast: Part 1 Weight Loss Is Intermittent Fasting Healthy
    How to: Intermittent Fasting Women and Intermittent Fasting

    He suggests pure fat taken during a fast will not take you out of the fast but will slow body fat oxidisation (obviously) GOOD!!

    He also suggests studies have shown IF may not work as well for women as for men re weight loss BAD!!

    The most useful thing I have found though is post from Martin Berkhan of leangains.com

    My research has indicated that the ideal state of fat burning is reached after 12-18 hours of fasting. Coupled with high levels of catecholamines, increased blood flow to stubborn regions, and low insulin for a2-receptor inhibition, this time interval is the "golden age" of stubborn fat mobilization.

    Let me just explain real quick what I mean by the ideal state of fat burning. Studies have examined free fatty acid (FFA) oxidation from anywhere between the overnight fasted state to three days of fasting. While FFA oxidation increases the longer time you spend in the fasted state, the contribution of fatty acids to whole body fat oxidation changes.

    In short-term fasting there's a significant increase in subcutaneous FFA oxidation. That's just a fancy way of saying that you're mainly burning body fat and nothing else. For up to 14-20 hours* after a 600-calorie meal in normal-weight subjects, fat is only mobilized from body fat stores in resting individuals.

    * 14-20 hours in a completely sedentary state should easily equal 12-18 hours in real life.

    Past this time point, fat burning increases further. That goes without saying. But it's not necessarily the type of fat you're after that you'll be burning. Somewhere in between the 10- and 30-hour time point, the oxidation of intramuscular fat increases greatly, but no increase is seen in subcutaneous fat. Subcutaneous fat simply can't keep up with demand, so you're playing a game of diminishing returns if you push the fast too long.
    I also read a study which suggests IF does not affect RMR & another which says it is as effective as CR but less painless. Also I read somewhere that walking in the 4-6hrs of optimum fat burning in a fasted state will also elevate fat burning in a to a new level

    So now I understand better why people are aiming for 1 meal per day & why incorporating the full ADF protocol may be better than 5:2.

    I still want to get the coconut oil in daily & I am concerned about eating 1 large meal a day (memories of all those years I only ate once a day & put weight on (OK it was SAD, lots of cals probably & some alcohol but still). Won’t this keep the stomach large to accommodate it? Mark B talks about timings based on a meal of 600 cals. A larger meal would take longer to digest I assume so throw all the timings out.

    Until I can afford to get 6mths worth of 4-weekly cycles of RMR & BF Calliper testing going (there’s a place just 6 miles away that does it Yes!!), a GoWearFit toy or equivalent & enough ketone blood testing strips for 6 mths, any more thoughts re NK is a waste of time as \I have no idea if I’m actually in it. I will continue with the level of Pg I am currently using (just in case) Cg is not an issue any way. But I am fed up with forcing down possible unnecessary fat for the sake of it.

    In the meantime, given the long term health benefits of IF, regardless of the weight loss (or not) I am inclined to start working towards my own version of IF now.
    Last edited by Ddraig Goch; 03-29-2013 at 12:42 PM. Reason: clarification

  3. #163
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    Found this out today – An intake of 15-50 grams per day of carbohydrate may be required to ensure protein sparing whilst still allowing ketosis to develop. Something to remember when I go back to formally doing NK again even though I am not convinced.
    Last edited by Ddraig Goch; 03-29-2013 at 11:47 AM. Reason: spelling

  4. #164
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    IF n=1 (mod 2)

    Timing seems to be everything:
    1) It’s important to not snack (or at least if one must then CO, EVOO or butter only).
    2) Carbs will be limited to spinach & eggs
    3) Menu will be made up of 2 meals on UD with 4hr eating window, 1 meal on DD (all 600 cals) & up to 2 x CO shots (outside 18-24hr fast window) as necessary.
    4) 1 day per week (Sun) will be tracked but not calorie restricted (i.e. may contain higher carbs (<10g net) & up to 60g protein, the rest fat). This is NOT a cheat day or a re-feed day, just a relax day. Mac nuts (4oz) or HCWC will be allowed but not both (life has to be worth living).
    5) Daily protein = 55g i.e. 110g over 2 days i.e. 37g per meal
    6) For my job I walk 5-8 miles a day from 8am. Ideally this would be during hrs 18-24 of the fast. So ideally my DD meal would be at 14:00 & my UD meals would be 10:00 & 14:00. But this would mean all meals ‘on the road’ – not the way to enjoy food. So meals will be 12:00 & 16:00. This will give me 24 hr fast between UD & DD and 20hrs between DD & UD

    Will report back in 3 weeks
    Last edited by Ddraig Goch; 03-29-2013 at 01:57 PM. Reason: clarification

  5. #165
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    Sat 31/4 - Update

    My weight loss is following the same pattern as last month - down during TOM. Weird. I am curious to see if the pattern remains the same throughout the month so will put off n=1 (Mod 2) until the start of the next cycle. Never having this sort of day on day data before, I think it will be useful to know for the future & even though I am aware of the health benefits of IF, 3 more weeks won't hurt. Besides, I want to see if this cycle of weight loss pushes me into the NSZ naturally (Ie a NSZ is not a natural set point).

    PS: worked out my IF menus last night. 600 cals & 37g protein gives some really awesome meals & after my fairly low day yesterday (I did eat some fat last night just to up the cals a bit) I am not at all hungry this am.

    PPS: I will use the next 3 weeks to ease gently into the IF routine - try to start eating within the time frame (but keep the cals to 1150/d approx, Pg =55) only eat when hungry etc
    Last edited by Ddraig Goch; 03-30-2013 at 02:46 AM. Reason: PPS

  6. #166
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    It also has a thick layer of cream that you can scoop out and put on top of berries or just eat by the spoon

  7. #167
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    Sun 31/3
    Measured to day. No change except 1/2" off my thighs (should have been last week but I refuse to measure on an 'up' week). Depressingly, because my stomach is going south my 'through the belly button' measurement has got larger.

    Tried the UD timing yesterday & it worked pretty well. My new problem is taking supps 3x day. I had to eat extra fat last night to take them. Still it was pure fat so never mind. Will use CO a la SLD in future

    PS: I managed to have cream & coco powder in the house & only have 1 HCWC. Definite improvement. The strict timing window is a very good means of stopping the snacking (and I was quite late to bed last night too)

    UPDATE: I have now split my sups into 2x day to eat with my meals. On a DD I will have the first lot with a CO shot @ 6am (NB: Note to self - need to move hot lemon to early eve as the CO will stop the cleanse). Once I have done my n=1 (mod 2) for 4 weeks I will drop the DD meal to 500 cals to counteract it (unless of course I am magically losing more than my wished for 1.5lb a week, in which case I can leave well alone - if only!)

    PS: the only only problem I have with this is a vit C in the eve (I like to spread everything out) with the mag. I'm sure I read somewhere that mag prevents the absorption of vit C. Something to check later.
    Last edited by Ddraig Goch; 03-31-2013 at 03:21 AM. Reason: update

  8. #168
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    As I sit here counting the minutes to 12:00 when I can eat (no I am not hungry, I just want to eat) it has dawned on me that most of my eating is due to a) something to do or b) procrastination.

    If I must procrastinate might as well do something useful so I'm off to check out Mark's 15 min Workouts. I also have a number of 10min exercise DVD's. Time to brush the dust off them I think

    Pull Up Progression - YouTube

    Pistol squat progressions - YouTube

    ConvictConditioning's channel - YouTube
    Last edited by Ddraig Goch; 03-31-2013 at 04:14 AM. Reason: LINKS

  9. #169
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    More exercise links/books:

    Fitness 666

    Overcoming Gravity by Steven Low

    Raising The Bar and the upcoming Pushing The Limits by Al Kavadlo

    You Are Your Own Gym (YAYOG) and Body By You by Mark Lauren (he also has a Bodyweight Training dvd and a You Are Your Own Gym 3 dvd set) There is a YAYOG iPjhone app.

    Convict Conditioning 1 and 2 by Paul Wade (also has available dvd's for each of the "big six" exercises listed in the first book)

    Max Capacity Training - 12 Week Bodyweight Workout Plan
    Last edited by Ddraig Goch; 03-31-2013 at 05:17 AM.

  10. #170
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    Now here's an interesting thing. Had my meal as planned but still hungry 10mins later still hungry so decided to heat up my chicken broth planned for tonight & eat that with butter. Heated it up, weighed out the butter. Then suddenly, was full. Either 10 mins is not long enough for satiety to switch on or giving myself 'permission' to eat more switched it on.The body & mind are funny things....

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