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Thread: Paleo And Politics page 8

  1. #71
    valmason01's Avatar
    valmason01 is online now Senior Member
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    Primal Fuel
    This weekend I was able to tip off some guys by the beach selling coconuts that the Code Enforcers were making their way up to their impromptu "stand" and they were able to pack everything up and avoid getting pinched. That made me feel real good.
    That! You rock!
    [SIZE=3][FONT=Century Gothic]You know all those things you have always wanted to do? You should go do them.

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  2. #72
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    I have always had to be different and even here I am I am liberal and what you would probably consider religious though I don't particularly like that word and don't use it to describe myself. I am a follower of Christ, not of Christians. I don't find anything in paleo inconsistent with my beliefs; for me they all fit rather nicely.

    Quote Originally Posted by saturnfan View Post
    Iím weird in the sense that I have always viewed paleo/primal as being somewhat academic, putting my health on the line to validate scientific concepts that are notoriously under researched and seldom understood.

    But politically, it seems to make sense that libertarians would flock to paleo due to their extreme anti-governmental views. Similar to the fact that I havenít noticed too many religious people here, who probably stopped reading when the word evolution came up.
    [SIZE=3][FONT=Century Gothic]You know all those things you have always wanted to do? You should go do them.

    Age 48
    height 5'3
    SW 215 lbs
    CW 180 lbs (whole foods/primal eating)
    LW 172 lbs
    GW 125ish lbs

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    I'm not getting your point. Yes the state does things other than protect private property. The Bureau of Weights and Measures doen't protect private property either.
    Is that true?

    Most abuses of government can be explained by the economic concepts of "concentrated benefit vs. diffuse harm" and "rent seeking."

    E.g. occupational licensing, which is almost always described as a public safety benefit and harm to industry, is in fact often requested BY industry. Why? Rent seeking.

    Similarly, lateral transfers (e.g. farm subsidies) are successfully pushed because they cause diffuse harm (everyone in society is hurt, but only a little) and concentrated benefits (farmers make millions of dollars).

    However, you will never see a bill described named "rent seeking by the auto industry" or "Causing Harm to American Families for the benefit of Factory Farmers"... Instead, you see the formation of a Bureau of Weights and Measures that goes around putting seals on scales and gas pumps, and in the process keeps small time vendors out of the market by forbidding sales unless you go through the paperwork of and cost of getting one of those seals...which is to the benefit of existing businesses and to the harm of new entrants and quite possibly the general public.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    I'm not getting your point. Yes the state does things other than protect private property. The Bureau of Weights and Measures doen't protect private property either.
    You made a blanket statement that "the state protects property rights." I am merely trying to point out that the state ONLY protects the property rights (or any rights for that matter) of the government and its friends. It no longer protects the rights of its citizens - in fact it does quite the opposite.

    As far as my personal politics go, I vote with my wallet and my behavior. I avoid paying taxes when I can, I try to consume less, I save wealth by buying and holding physical precious metals instead of using the banks, I do not use credit, I eat primal, I am starting a garden, I buy used clothing, I avoid using government services as much as possible, I'm learning to hunt, etc, etc, etc,....

    Regardless of the style or system of government, their ultimate goal is to manage people. I simply try as hard as I can to stay under their radar - I value freedom, and I can manage my affairs just fine on my own thank you very much.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by itchy166 View Post
    You made a blanket statement that "the state protects property rights." I am merely trying to point out that the state ONLY protects the property rights (or any rights for that matter) of the government and its friends. It no longer protects the rights of its citizens - in fact it does quite the opposite.
    It protects all property rights. Police, courts, patents, jails, fire, FEMA are all forms of property protection. In San Francisco, for example, the Sherrif's Office will remove me from my apartment if I don't pay my landlord.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptocode View Post
    What's wrong with it is that it's incorrect.
    No. It's not. If you paid workers the value they generated, you wouldn't make a dime.

    The worker forwards (interest free) typically 1-2 weeks work. The owner forwards (interest free) the workers pay untill all the product is sold. If the risk were a bad one, and the sale is at a loss, the worker is still paid, out the the owners additional saved money. The worker is guarenteed his wage, the owner is not.
    The worker forwards work continually during his/her employment, making loans again and again. And workers are not always paid. I know, it happened to me. In a bankruptcy, money creditors are up the food chain from labor creditors.

    The worker is welcome to. He's working, he can save some money instead of spending it all. That saved money is called "Capital".
    In silly land.
    Last edited by Rojo; 01-25-2013 at 10:21 AM.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    No. It's not. If you paid workers the value they generated, you wouldn't make a dime.
    Only if 100% of the value is generated by the workers. Since workers alone (without materials, equipment, sales channels, etc.) don't generate any value, that is clearly false.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    N

    In silly land.
    Quite a common theme in American Business suggest you learn about it
    Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
    Starting Weight: 294 pounds
    Current Weight: 235 pounds
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  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by canio6 View Post
    ...However, I do not have as optimistic an opinion of others. We are no longer a country of individuals seeking to carve out our piece of America through hard work and the like. Perhaps part of this is due to the fact that if you do the government confiscates much of what you earn through taxation, but another part of it is that a certain portion of the population is quite happy to sit and live off the work of others.
    This thread has become much more interesting. I was feeling rather lonely.

    Alas, I cannot claim the ideas for a better future of our Country as mine. They have been worked out in considerable detail by others much more knowledgeble than I. You can find there at Ludwig von Mises Institute : The Austrian School Is Advancing Liberty

    But we completely agree that "We are no longer a country of individuals seeking to carve out our piece of America through hard work and the like". The problem then is not that the proposed solution would not work, but that our people have become so weak and soft that they would never support the revolution necessary to accomplish it.

    "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson

    I agree. Again Jefferson said approximately that when people learn they can vote themselves money (stolen from others) there will be no hope for our Country, and no end of such stealing.

    And again I agree. Our people have become accustomed to having no or only very limited property rights, particularly pertaining to money. The first to go must be the private but Gov't controlled Federal Reserve Bank.

  10. #80
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    Most interesting Comments, but no one has responded to my question "What would your perfect ideal America look like and how would it function?"

    For those of profound humorlessness or lack of imagination I offer this:

    The Americans With No Abilities Act*

    *President Barack Obama and the Democratic Senate are considering sweeping legislation that will provide new benefits for many Americans. The Americans With No Abilities Act is being hailed as a major legislative goal by advocates of the millions of Americans who lack any real skills or ambition.*

    *"Roughly 50 percent of Americans do not possess the competence and drive necessary to carve out a meaningful role for themselves in society," said
    California Sen. Barbara Boxer. "We can no longer stand by and allow People of Inability (POI) to be ridiculed and passed over. * *With this legislation, employers will no longer be able to grant special favors to a small group of workers simply because they have some idea of what they are doing."*

    *In a Capitol Hill press conference, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid pointed to the success of the U.S. Postal Service, which has a long-standing policy of providing opportunity without regard to performance. *

    *At the state government level, the Department of Motor Vehicles also has an excellent record of hiring Persons with No Ability (63 percent).*

    *Under the Americans With No Abilities Act, more than 25 million mid-level positions will be created, with important-sounding titles but little real responsibility, thus providing an illusory sense of purpose and performance.*
    *Mandatory non-performance-based raises and promotions will be given to
    guarantee upward mobility for even the most unremarkable employees. *

    *The legislation provides substantial tax breaks to corporations that
    promote a significant number of Persons of Inability (POI) into
    middle-management positions, and give a tax credit to small and
    medium-sized businesses that agree to hire one clueless worker for every
    two talented hires.*

    *Finally, the Americans With No Abilities Act contains tough new measures
    to make it more difficult to discriminate against the non-abled; for
    example, banning discriminatory interview questions such as, "Do you have
    any skills or experience that relate to this job?"*

    *"As a non-abled person, I can't be expected to keep up with people who
    have something going for them," said Mary Lou Gertz, who lost her position
    as a lug-nut twister at the GM plant in Flint, Mich., due to her inability
    to remember righty tighty, lefty loosey. "This new law should be real good
    for people like me. I'll finally have job security." *

    *With the passage of this bill, Gertz and millions of other untalented
    citizens will finally see a light at the end of the tunnel.*

    *Said Senator Dick Durbin: "As a senator with no abilities, I believe the
    same privileges that elected officials enjoy ought to be extended to every
    American with no abilities. It is our duty as lawmakers to provide each and
    every American citizen, regardless of his or her inadequacy, with some sort
    of space to take up in this great nation and a good salary for doing so."*

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. I know I'm going to really regret this!

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