Paleo And Politics page 22

[Rojo]

Thus, "common sense" (in this view) equates to the knowledge and experience which most people already have, or which the person using the term believes that they do or should have.

I have no problem with that, especially the last part -- "or which the person using the term believes that they do or should have".

A buddy of mine believes primal/paleo is a "gimmick". To him, simple calorie-in-calorie-out is common sense.

[sakura_girl]

I am "being negative" because you are trying to tell me that it's in fact positive that I am abused systematically, because the abusers enjoy a sense of reward for my torment...so obviously I have to refute this with a negation.

I am not saying it is positive. I am saying that it is overall net 0 because there are positive things you are obviously ignoring because you choose to overplay the negatives.

If you were all bemoaning the nature of society as entirely tyrannical, I would be refuting your claim with a Positive rebuttal- I'd point out that no matter how oppressive the law, for example, that all sub-cultures are always organized around ignoring whichever laws they can whenever it is possible to do so (how servers and bar-tenders and their bosses, for example, are all engaged in tax resistance)

Okay, so we can agree on the fact that there are actually things that balance the system like you just said here.

[Mr.Perfidy]

no because you are looking at this balance like it is some real thing that exists, when in fact it is an idea in just your mind.

Who gives a shit about the "net 0 gain" balance that exists between 40 children of gaza barefoot and starving and one asshole defense contractor in Tel Aviv sleeping on a matress made of eastern european slave women and drinking champagne? The kids in gaza are experiencing a net loss. A non-human, imaginary agent is necessary to call this a Balance.

Your thinking is not rooted in your self or your body at all- its entirely a concept-model, computer-program sort of dehumanized intellect that is disconnected to the real and living world. You have to realign your perceptions because right now you just talk as though humans are some immaterial and immortal observer things, and not lumps of nerve endings that suffer harm and fear.

[sakura_girl]

no because you are looking at this balance like it is some real thing that exists, when in fact it is an idea in just your mind.

Who gives a shit about the "net 0 gain" balance that exists between 40 children of gaza barefoot and starving and one asshole defense contractor in Tel Aviv sleeping on a matress made of eastern european slave women and drinking champagne? The kids in gaza are experiencing a net loss. A non-human, imaginary agent is necessary to call this a Balance.

Your thinking is not rooted in your self or your body at all- its entirely a concept-model, computer-program sort of dehumanized intellect that is disconnected to the real and living world. You have to realign your perceptions because right now you just talk as though humans are some immaterial and immortal observer things, and not lumps of nerve endings that suffer harm and fear.

I think it is something that each individual has to determine for themselves in how much they want to detach themselves from emotion, which is only achievable through understanding of how the system works. It really depends on personal preference, though, how much emotional fluctuation you go through, since the more sadness you live through, the higher amount of happiness you gain as well. It only hurts as much as you want it to. Even if you do not accept my degree of detachment, I am trying to respect yours.

[Mr.Perfidy]

Nope still computer-model rationalizing and coercion apologizing- no one can say, "well sure she's getting beat but it only hurts if she lets it."

that's like a literal mental or emotional illness, to attribute responsibility for pain on the victim and not on the perpetrator of violence against them.

also you keep talking like you are assuming people are in some position of privilege and like the only suffering they have to consider is their own inner-turmoil, and not things like skin diseases and e.coli water supplies.

[sakura_girl]

Nope still computer-model rationalizing and coercion apologizing- no one can say, "well sure she's getting beat but it only hurts if she lets it."

Yes, due to understanding the whole picture and what you gain through going through pain. Have you not heard of simple joys?

that's like a literal mental or emotional illness, to attribute responsibility for pain on the victim and not on the perpetrator of violence against them.

It is both of their faults. What did the victim do? Probably emotionally attach themselves to the perpetrator for it to have created such emotional negativity toward the perpetrator and themselves. And it's obvious what the perpetrator did. I am not saying what the perpetrator did was right. I am just speaking from an objective point of view what might have caused it. You never know the entire story of the perpetrator. Maybe 10 years ago they were victims of the same act and don't know how else to react to a situation other than do the same thing to others because that's the only action they've seen. What the victim can do in this situation is to continuously be indifferent because the perpetrator will see that it would not create the emotional high that he/she wanted.

also you keep talking like you are assuming people are in some position of privilege and like the only suffering they have to consider is their own inner-turmoil, and not things like skin diseases and e.coli water supplies.

Yes! That is what I am advocating. Self-responsibility. If you have a disease, then deal with it, like how other people have to deal with their stupidity in certain areas or lack of ability to access a certain resource. What can you do to change it other than to live your life as positively as you can?

[Mr.Perfidy]

that's just ignorant, Girl.

Yes, due to understanding the whole picture and what you gain through going through pain. Have you not heard of simple joys?

have you not heard of white phosphorous?

you are ignoring the core of my argument...

There is no whole picture. There is no "System." Those are constructed models that exist in the mind. In reality though there is abuse and suffering of abuse, and there are abusers and their exploitation.

It is both of their faults. What did the victim do?

Right? Fuckin haji's, all being born in baghdad and shit. Fuck them- definitely a bad choice- truly they merit being shocked and awed.

Probably emotionally attach themselves to the perpetrator for it to have created such emotional negativity toward the perpetrator and themselves. And it's obvious what the perpetrator did. I am not saying what the perpetrator did was right.

you kind of are because you are saying that their actions have some balancing effect on the world as though it is like a necessary and good property of human action. You are definitely making it possible for their aggression to continue without resistance from their mind.

I am just speaking from an objective point of view what might have caused it. You never know the entire story of the perpetrator. Maybe 10 years ago they were victims of the same act and don't know how else to react to a situation other than do the same thing to others because that's the only action they've seen.

probably... None of that is my problem if he tries to bring that to the point of forcibly negatively effecting my own biological integrity. I don't give a shit about your motivation if you are trying to punch me- I am going to maneuver to put them on the ground regardless of their history.

Now, whether my combat will become punitive or merely defense-oriented would be determined by my awareness of their conditions.

For example, in a characteristic neighborhood fight in 08 or so, a local alpha male attacked a friend and then all of us. He came at me wielding a metal chair, and in my bullet-time aggression-response reflex mode, I noted in his approach a vulnerability in his knee- I could have attacked it without being in range of the chair, and probably crippled it for life. But, I knew he had problems and I knew that he was usually kind to my brother and that he got people laid and hosted good parties, and also that he was my neighbor and therefore punitive action would be a bad investment, so, I merely plucked the chair from his hands and used his momentum to put him on the ground and out of threat range. But I didn't eat a chair to the head because I was "detached" from the suffering it would cause...LOL I don't want to be brain dead.

What the victim can do in this situation is to continuously be indifferent because the perpetrator will see that it would not create the emotional high that he/she wanted.

wow I am very sorry that you were so cruelly mistreated and betrayed. This is a fucked up thing to even think about yourself, let alone to force on everyone on earth. *hugs*

[sakura_girl]

All I am saying is, when someone does something negative to you, you don't have to accept and respond and make it worse.

[Mr.Perfidy]

google: white phosphorous.

It doesn't hurt because they feebly wish Israelis loved them...

[sakura_girl]

On an individual level, because that's efficient.

When you start getting into government agendas, you have to start looking at the inefficiency of the system on the earth and how it creates conflicts like that.