Why can't I look like Mark Sisson!?!?! page 7

[sbhikes]

Gosh, I live in Santa Barbara, only about an hour away from Malibu, and just as much on the beach. I sprint once a week. I lift. I play, which for me is hiking in the mountains. I even went mountain biking yesterday, if you can call a dirt road in the wilderness mountain biking and me whiteknuckling the brakes "play". I eat similar to Mark. I don't look like him. Not one bit. I don't look like his wife either. I think the main ingredient missing is the lack of a good plastic surgeon. Carrie even admits to getting microdermabrasion or something like that. You can google search for that. I live amongst enough arm-candy ladies to know that if they're doing one thing like that they're probably doing another. Even my sister gets a lot of work done and she's just a minivan mom. That's So Cal, that's life in the 'bu. And by the way, the addition or subtraction of starchy root vegetables has absolutely no effect on my body composition. I usually eat a half or a whole potato every day and often some other things like carrots or bananas. I lift, so the starch seems to help, but by no means is it miraculous in its effects. Beware the charlatans who ascribe miracle properties to certain food items. Just eat real food.

[ChocoTaco369]

Oh boy, that sounds dire! Or it could be that his digestive system is just not used to having to extract nutrition from such a bio-unavailable source.

Why do you need to make anyone who doesn't do it your way into a pathological case?

Examples of foods where nutrition is not very bioavailable: grains, legumes, fibrous vegetables, particularly greens.

Examples of foods where nutrition is highly bioavailable: Meats, eggs, dairy, starchy tubers.

The nutrition in tubers is far, far more available to the body than vegetables because vegetables contain their nutrition bound in insoluble fiber that is passed through the gut, whereas starch is easily broken down and assimilated.

hehe....Lighten up, kiddo! You take yourself way too seriously.

When you freely give out poor advice that people may follow, it's kinda serious. Again, it's up for the reader to decide what makes sense to them. I choose to eat how my body is designed to function.

[heatseeker]

Beware the charlatans who ascribe miracle properties to certain food items. Just eat real food.

This is probably the most salient point made on these boards in months.

[Ayla2010]

Then maybe you should yell at them for trying to pick a fight that had no place instead of yelling at me since I was speaking in context of the conversation. If you actually read, it's typically me getting berated by the keto-Nazis when I'm operating in context of the conversation. I rarely pick fights, and it is incredibly annoying when the religious zealots come in and try and dissuade healthy people from eating real food - much less the staple foods of most traditional societies - because they have a history of overeating, poor gut health, a general phobia or an agenda to push that they outright lie about. But why blame yourself when you can blame a foodgroup and not accept responsibility for your actions? I find it amazing how suddenly people on keto are eating chicken breast and sweet potatoes when it is the convenient counterpoint to your argument. I don't believe that story for a second (or the 75-100g of starch story, either). Trolls will be trolls, and I know a lie when I see it most of the time.

A funny story: one of my good friends had IBS her entire life. Her IBS would kick in any time she ate anything fatty. She avoided fatty meats because any time she ate any, she would get very, very ill. It took months of trying to convince her that it wasn't the fatty food and was probably a gluten intolerance and I got her to go grain-free. Now, she can eat whatever fatty meat she wants. Bacon, pork ribs, whole chicken, eggs...all the stuff that would make her violently ill is suddenly digestible, but if she has any bread - even a slice - it is a mad dash to the bathroom. Either Ayla2010 is outright lying, trolling me or her "gut is not fine." Talk is cheap on the internet, and I've seen too much stuff over the years to believe anything different. It takes a lot more than a probiotic pill once a day to repair a gut destroyed by decades of poor dieting. It takes years of responsible dieting, clean living and supplementation to mend a gut, and you will never repair a gut culture that thrives off soluble fiber if you don't eat soluble fiber. Going keto avoids the problem rather than fixes you. It is taking a histamine blocker instead of removing the allergen. You are treating the symptom, not the cause.

But back to the discussion on hand - it is clearly a caloric deficit issue. I recommend a balanced diet rich in meats, eggs, fruits and starches because it is overly the most varied and nutritious and supports a robust thyroid and a higher metabolic rate. When you cut carbohydrate too low, your blood CO2 levels tend to drop. This is a sign that your mitochondria are not as robust and your cell respiration is slowing, which is correlated with a downregulated metabolic rate, making it harder to lose weight (one of the reasons low-carbers tend to stall at that magic 15-20 lb number). A diet where animal fat, starch and fruit sugar is available to the body provides you with the most robust nutrition and the healthiest metabolism. Add to that liberal amounts of iodized or colored salts (like Himalayan sea salt, my favorite) and you'll provide the best environment for weight loss in general, assuming your calories are under control.

I am certainly not a liar or a troll, thank you very much.
That 75-100 g of starchy carbs was one meal! I normally eat under 20 g of carbs per day, no starchy carbs. That one meal was an experiment. I had cooked a roast chicken, and yes I ate the breast, since I was having higher carbs with my meal, it was a one off experiment.

Don't worry, you don't have to feel sorry for me. I have already reached and exceeded all my goals, I have nothing I'm looking to change or modify at this point in time because it's all working effortlessly. The problem with y'all is you give you typically horrible, backwards advise because you plant your "special flower syndrome" in the back of everyone's minds and it really, really holds them back.

I just went through an argument with her a few days ago. In that argument, she was on her 3rd week of strict ketosis and had never felt better in her life. Now a few days later she's off keto and eating chicken breast and sweet potatoes. And I need to get a grip? Drop your biases and actually read. Her situation changes as to what is convenient to the argument at the time. Funny how that happens.

You actually read what I typed. It was a once of experiment, with one meal.
I do not normally eat meals like that. This is the only time my situation has been different in recent discussions.

Thank you for commenting without reading what I've actually written. But to address your concern - if you cannot digest a certain food group (of real food), the fault is your body, not the food. At this point, it is best to explore options to correct this and heal yourself, not just swear off a completely healthy food altogether. And what you don't seem to understand is the typical sentiment around here does not allow everyone to try everything. Most people do not know what works best for them because they haven't found it yet.


Read. You cannot consume 75-100g of starch and be in ketosis.


Nothing bugs me. As you are always the one coming at me, I can only assume it's me that makes you feel threatened.

Again, it was one meal!

[oxide]

Why does anyone bother to read Chocotaco? He's not Primal.

Knifegill's problems digesting starch is clearly an outlier.

To the Original Poster.... Mark has an extremely thin build. His calf muscles are too thin compared to the rest of his body. He probably has more trouble keeping the muscle on than keeping the fat off. Please just look like yourself. But for breaking through a plateau, the fitness forum has a lot of advice.

[Ayla2010]

Examples of foods where nutrition is not very bioavailable: grains, legumes, fibrous vegetables, particularly greens.

Examples of foods where nutrition is highly bioavailable: Meats, eggs, dairy, starchy tubers.

The nutrition in tubers is far, far more available to the body than vegetables because vegetables contain their nutrition bound in insoluble fiber that is passed through the gut, whereas starch is easily broken down and assimilated.


When you freely give out poor advice that people may follow, it's kinda serious. Again, it's up for the reader to decide what makes sense to them. I choose to eat how my body is designed to function.

Exactly, I do too.
I do not function well on higher starchy carbs, I just experimented again recently just to show you that.
So therefore I don't want to eat them anymore.

[Paleobird]

You spend most of your time working out of a secondary metabolic pathway. Being that you are a cancer survivor and have epilepsy, it makes sense for you to do what you do because for you, it is medicinal. Protecting your overall health and well-being at this point is probably more important than becoming a world class sprinter. The point I'm trying to make is you make up a very, very small slice of the pie. Very few people will function better doing what you're doing, and it doesn't make sense for them.

This is so incredibly condescending Choco. If something is "medicinal" for me, does that mean that it could not be helpful for someone else? I have no interest in being a "world class" sprinter but I am a pretty darn good one. I also climb mountains and swim for miles in the ocean. I choose a different form of athletics than you. That doesn't mean I'm a couch potato.
I am the very small slice of the pie that actually *needs* to eat this way, agreed. That doesn't mean that other people couldn't benefit from it.

Even you state that it "protects my overall health and wellbeing". You can't have it both ways, Choco.

[cori93437]

Then maybe you should yell at them for trying to pick a fight that had no place instead of yelling at me since I was speaking in context of the conversation. If you actually read, it's typically me getting berated by the keto-Nazis when I'm operating in context of the conversation. I rarely pick fights, and it is incredibly annoying when the religious zealots come in and try and dissuade healthy people from eating real food - much less the staple foods of most traditional societies - because they have a history of overeating, poor gut health, a general phobia or an agenda to push that they outright lie about. But why blame yourself when you can blame a foodgroup and not accept responsibility for your actions? I find it amazing how suddenly people on keto are eating chicken breast and sweet potatoes when it is the convenient counterpoint to your argument. I don't believe that story for a second (or the 75-100g of starch story, either). Trolls will be trolls, and I know a lie when I see it most of the time.

A funny story: one of my good friends had IBS her entire life. Her IBS would kick in any time she ate anything fatty. She avoided fatty meats because any time she ate any, she would get very, very ill. It took months of trying to convince her that it wasn't the fatty food and was probably a gluten intolerance and I got her to go grain-free. Now, she can eat whatever fatty meat she wants. Bacon, pork ribs, whole chicken, eggs...all the stuff that would make her violently ill is suddenly digestible, but if she has any bread - even a slice - it is a mad dash to the bathroom. Either Ayla2010 is outright lying, trolling me or her "gut is not fine." Talk is cheap on the internet, and I've seen too much stuff over the years to believe anything different. It takes a lot more than a probiotic pill once a day to repair a gut destroyed by decades of poor dieting. It takes years of responsible dieting, clean living and supplementation to mend a gut, and you will never repair a gut culture that thrives off soluble fiber if you don't eat soluble fiber. Going keto avoids the problem rather than fixes you. It is taking a histamine blocker instead of removing the allergen. You are treating the symptom, not the cause.

But back to the discussion on hand - it is clearly a caloric deficit issue. I recommend a balanced diet rich in meats, eggs, fruits and starches because it is overly the most varied and nutritious and supports a robust thyroid and a higher metabolic rate. When you cut carbohydrate too low, your blood CO2 levels tend to drop. This is a sign that your mitochondria are not as robust and your cell respiration is slowing, which is correlated with a downregulated metabolic rate, making it harder to lose weight (one of the reasons low-carbers tend to stall at that magic 15-20 lb number). A diet where animal fat, starch and fruit sugar is available to the body provides you with the most robust nutrition and the healthiest metabolism. Add to that liberal amounts of iodized or colored salts (like Himalayan sea salt, my favorite) and you'll provide the best environment for weight loss in general, assuming your calories are under control.

IMO too often you try to tell people to eat by what you find works for you even after they state they are not interested or that they don't find it works for them...
I would not say that your rarely pick fights, you very often come in with a patently anti-LC stance regardless, and I was hoping that you could begin to see it a little more openly.

I don't like seeing either side be pushy and advocate every individual choosing their own path.
That is what I always advocate on these forums.
Perhaps LC won't be necessary for them long term for a person, but it really can be an important tool in the pathway, and for others it really feels best on a longer basis. And that should be OK too.
No need to keep trying to pound "your way" into anyone's heads.


As for the balanced plan you choose, "meats, eggs, fruits and starches" (I'd add vegetables)... I agree... that's wonderful for those who can eat all of those things without any issue. And I don't necessarily mean digestive issues. For some people the fruits and starches lead to binge behaviors and derail the diet and weight loss, and leave them feeling helpless and hopeless. A stint of LC, during which they drink bone broth as well and eat cultured dairy, CAN be an excellent reset and also start the gut healing if digestion is/was an issue. It can also change their relationship to food so that they are in control again. They find satiety, they often stop eating for emotional reasons or stress, or at least stop it from happening as often and become very aware of the triggers. If they start adding fruits and starched back into their diet slowly after a period of time, with some possible fermented veg or probiotic if they encounter a problem with a food, they will have better gut health at the end... better gut health and better mental health to deal with the additional foods that used to send them into binges.
Really. It has worked for a lot of people.
It doesn't have to be a permanent WOE, no one is saying that. But it can be a valuable tool to people with food issues.
A LC'er who has significant weight to lose might be better off making the deal that they go LC and get their binge issues under control but stall at 15-20 short of goal... then reassess their situation and change their WOE to a more balanced one such as you suggest. For many the new relationship they have developed with food sticks with them long term. Win/Win.

As for that plan for me.
Not happening for a lot of other personal reasons.
I'm a special snowflake, I don't deny that, and I don't try to pass off my reasons for LC as anything else.
I'm 100% honest about my need for LC being for medical reasons...
But it has also helped me in other important areas of my diet such as I shared above, and I find that I have these things in common with others who have gone or who are HFLC.
I still eat the carby foods I enjoy sometimes, just in moderation.
I'm not phobic of anything... except maybe narrow mindedness.

[Paleobird]

Examples of foods where nutrition is highly bioavailable: Meats, eggs, dairy, starchy tubers.

The nutrition in tubers is far, far more available to the body than vegetables because vegetables contain their nutrition bound in insoluble fiber that is passed through the gut, whereas starch is easily broken down and assimilated.

But have you not been reading all Otzi's posts lately about the miracle that is Resistant Starch? It is type III fiber right after soluble and insoluble. Although I will agree with you that it is less bio-unavailable than the nutrients fibrous veggies.

[namelesswonder]

When you freely give out poor advice that people may follow, it's kinda serious. Again, it's up for the reader to decide what makes sense to them. I choose to eat how my body is designed to function.

Wait, sorry-not-sorry, you are trying to pretend like this is not exactly what you do every single day you post here, and, in fact, have already done so in this thread?

Mind = boggled.

Normally I stay out of such things, but really. This is beyond silly. You cannot claim that you are just trying to give people more perspective by sharing your experiences, and that we have to pick what works for us, while simultaneously telling people whose experiences have differed from yours that they are broke/wrong. Well, you can, but it's terribly hypocritical.