5'0" female, 44 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently keeping food tracker.
I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and should tweak Primal to their own needs.
“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.
And 33g of carbs isn't atkins induction level? Huh, let me go get my book.... Hmmmmmm
Dude YOU stated ketogenic or low carb levels eat up your lean mass. You HAVE NO PROOF. Again from that study:
"There was no significant change in fat free mass for either diet." I'll give you two guess on what "fat free mass" is....
That is what we are talking about. I'm not fighting for or against your carb curve or your right to eat what you want. I'm telling you that your continued stance on low carb "eating lean mass" is absurd and not backed by any studies that I've seen.
You can hang your hat on this study done by Sears on 20 people that shows NO statistically significant difference....but I wouldn't if I were you.
You know the three things I love most about this study:
ONE: it totally refutes what you claim
TWO: it was done by a group financially invested in having the higher carb groups outcome be better
THREE: you went to an anti-lowcarbers website to find it
Last edited by Neckhammer; 01-22-2013 at 12:50 PM.
In the face of a chronic and/or severe calorie deficit (whether from diet alone or from diet and exercise), inadequate protein intake, and no weight bearing exercise, muscle will be catabolized for energy by the body. However, muscle will also be catabolized on a high carb diet where there is no weight bearing exercise and the deficit is chronic and/or severe. While there can be other drawbacks of a ketogenic diet(low thyroid, poor hormonal balance in women), it doesn't necessarily equate to muscle mass loss in all situations. That being said, there isn't any inherent benefit of ketogenic diets over isocaloric or higher carb diets.
Lyle McDonald actually wrote a very long book called "The Ketogenic Diet" that goes into the physiological impact of a ketogenic diet. Though some of the information is slightly outdated, it is a great read.
I love the conversation here. I think the big take-away from this thread is "Different strokes for different folks". I wouldn't do a ketogenic diet long term if you paid me to do it, but I won't take you away from it if it works for you and you are thriving on it.
Last edited by NDF; 01-22-2013 at 04:31 PM.
The body can use dietary protein for gluconeogenesis before it uses lean mass as well. That is why if you are trying to get yourself into ketosis, too much dietary protein can actually prevent it. But you could still be VERY low carb and that glucose in your body is still not coming from your lean mass.
The moderate carbohydrate diet of equal caloric value slightly outperformed the ketogenic diet in both weight loss and fat mass reduction. The value not accounted for in the study is the additional water weight and glycogen that must have been lost in the ketogenic dieting group, which should further skew the study in the moderate carbohydrate diet's favor. The ketogenic diet came up a little short (though not "statistically significant"), but when accounting for a major confounding factor...well...this is where you have to be a scientist and analyze the data. I consider this significant, especially since the general formula for very overweight, sedentary people is to keep carbs as low as possible. Well, these were very overweight, sedentary people, which again proves that the success of a diet depends on two things: the caloric deficit, and the sustainability of that deficit.
literally wrote the book on ketogenic dieting. He was the one that mainstreamed it in the bodybuilding culture. Not only is this a straw man fallacy (which again makes it invalid), but you put your own foot in your mouth there. Lyle is the Lord of Ketosis
Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.