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Thread: Signs of Ketosis? page 3

  1. #21
    Shadowknight137's Avatar
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    Primal Fuel
    This is actually kind of funny to read.

    What's a good Primal popcorn alternative?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayla2010 View Post
    No less,maybe 1400 if that and I was never ever starving and always felt good, and still do now,, although did not track every day. Then and now I could not have eaten any more food without over eating.
    I am now under 20 g most days at the moment and 1200 calories. And yes I plan to lift heavy again very soon, and no I will not need to increase my carbs.
    I don't agree with you. I was being fueled by fat, and I am not the only one. Do a damn search, start a thread, plenty of people are lifting heavy, doing CrossFit type workouts on VLC. Shit, I know some people can't but plenty can.
    I DON"T WANT TO DO WHAT YOU DO, IT DOESN"T WORK FOR ME!! READ MY OTHER POSTS.
    CAN YOU UNDERSTAND ENGLISH!!!!!
    Why aren't you understanding?

    Adenosine triphosphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Please read.

    ATP is the currency of energy that makes chemical reactions occur. Nothing can occur without this. If your diet isn't supplying glucose, your body will create it in whatever way it can. You. Are. Never. Fueled. Solely. By. Fat.

    Gluconeogenesis works in conjunction with lipolysis(both run off your emergency stress hormones) to create glucose to be used for energy by converting your bodily tissues through using 6 molecules of ATP(linked above). It occurs in the liver, and the reason you can't be in optimal shape as said in this thread is because it breaks down bodily protein during gluconeogenesis(often really inflammatory proteins) and this coincides with loss of muscle.

    So, yeah, I've explained what I meant.
    nihil

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    The biggest two indicators of ketosis: absolutely horrible breath and pee that smells like ammonia.
    Those scents are transitional and do not last very long at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    That high feeling is usually stress hormones. If you are in ketosis, you will know because you will feel amazing and energetic for a short while and then hit a brick wall and binge on sugar for the next few days.
    And you will feel high and wonderful on sugar until your blood sugar crashes every three hours and demands to be fed. Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    It is if you do any kind of physical activity at all. I don't see anyone attaining any kind of respectable physical conditioning in ketosis.

    Stress hormones are a reality as well. Gluconeogenesis is a highly stressful situation to keep your body in at all times. Ketones are only supplemental. The brain runs primarily on glucose, even on ketosis. That high feeling very well could be elevated levels of adrenaline and cortisol in your body as your muscle tissues break down into glucose and unsaturated fats leak out of your tissue into your body. It wouldn't be a bad idea to get your adrenaline, cortisol and serotonin levels checked pre-ketosis dieting to see how the hormones adjust.
    I climbed Mt Kilimangaro in ketosis. Yes I realize that weight lifting is a different kind of muscle and yes requires some more carbs if you do it often but don't tell me that someone who can make it to the top of the world's tallest freestanding mountain is not in "respectable" physical condition.

    You state stuff with such authority . But ur wrong. The brain can run entirely and happily on ketones. The only body function that requires glucose is the red blood cells but they don't need much. In a fat adapted body gluconeogenesis is not stressful at all. It is the most natural normal thing in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Im serious. The body needs a certain amount of calories just to do all its normal functions. Things like regulating blood sugar come to mind, and using lean body mass is much more efficient then fat stores. Eating that low in calories and carbohydrates will certainly put your body into starvation mode where it will cling to fat as much as possible and slowly eat away lean body mass. Adding intense exercise on top of that would just be asking for permanent metabolic and hormonal damage.
    This is pure CW bs. Also Ayla is a very tiny woman. Her numbers and your numbers are different.

  4. #24
    Sue's Avatar
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    I thought Ayla was/is about 100kg ATM?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    No, no one does VLC and crossfits at a high level. There are no weightlifters, powerlifters, bodybuilders, professional athletes of any kind besides a very small percent doing long duration cardio that is VLC. It is not possible because that is not how our body works.

    Also 1200 calories is starvation. Good luck with that.
    So do you want to stick with 'it works for a small percentage of athletes' or 'it's impossible' ?

  6. #26
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    We arent all little Zach clones. We are different, and females typically need less calories than males do.

    I think most people who do poorly on low carb are having electrolites issues. Very important to keep those up. If mine get low, I feel as you described, slow, heavy.

    All it comes down to is our bodies are able to run on different things. We can run on sugar and/or fat. When your sugar burning systems are broken, it's good to give them a rest for a while by going extreme to the other side of the spectrum. And for some they may have to stay there for issues like seizures or Alzheimer's. but I think we are all capable of it so long as our body gets everything it needs to do it.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    No, no one does VLC and crossfits at a high level. There are no weightlifters, powerlifters, bodybuilders, professional athletes of any kind besides a very small percent doing long duration cardio that is VLC. It is not possible because that is not how our body works.

    Also 1200 calories is starvation. Good luck with that.
    None of that is true Zach.

    You can live regular life and lift weights while in ketosis.

    For small, sedentary women, 1200 calories is not starvation. A lot of women have a TDEE in the 1500-1600 range. For them, 1200 kcal is a moderate deficit. If these women are older - in their 60's and 70's - that can become maintenance.

    My issue with ketogenic dieting is it is based on skewed logic. For a small amount of people, ketogenic dieting may be advantageous, but if it is advantageous, that indicates you have severe health issues. Ketosis exists solely for one reason - it is a backup metabolic system for when your primary metabolism cannot function. Ketosis exists for periods of famine where you cannot eat a proper human diet. People who diet in ketosis are literally putting their body in a state where they think there is a food scarcity. That "high" feeling you get is stress hormones being elevated because your body is literally consuming lean tissue to fuel your brain. Your adrenaline and serotonin are high. It feels good. It's not good.

    Can you exist and function in ketosis? Yes. Are there situations where ketosis is ideal? Yes. But if it is truly beneficial to you, it signals that you are likely in dire straits with health. Occasionally putting yourself in ketosis may be very healthy - brief stressors are often good for the body. That's why lifting heavy is so great. But let's look at the facts:

    I exercise 1 hour a day 3 times a week. Of that time, I spend about 20% of it actually lifting. That's around 36 minutes a week I am actually stressing my body. There are 10,080 minutes in a week. I am lifting weights literally 0.36% of my life. The other 99.64% of my life, I am recovering from that 0.36%! And sometimes it is not enough. Every 4-6 weeks I need a full week off to "catch up."

    Spending a day a month in ketosis? Probably a good thing! Let your body elevate its stress hormones occasionally. Starve yourself a day. Stuff your face a day. There may be health benefits. But to purposely exist in a state that only naturally occurs under extreme duress? Not for me! Low fat, low carb...it is all bullshit. Your body wants a little bit of everything. Every time you force your body to manufacture glucose, fat, cholesterol, etc from another means, you are creating unnecessary stress. The Inuit are probably one of the most haggard, fastest-aging traditional societies in history. Why anyone would want to do that to themselves outside of medicinal purposes is beyond me.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 01-18-2013 at 08:15 AM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  8. #28
    Zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    None of that is true Zach.

    You can live regular life and lift weights while in ketosis.

    For small, sedentary women, 1200 calories is not starvation. A lot of women have a TDEE in the 1500-1600 range. For them, 1200 kcal is a moderate deficit. If these women are older - in their 60's and 70's - that can become maintenance.
    Where did i say that you couldnt lift weights? I said very few can sustain ketosis long term and that noone can use fat to fuel anaerobic exercise or maximal strength training.

    Also if you google starvation mode calories, 1200 is the cutoff for women and 1600 is for men. There was a study done showing 1600 calories produced starvation in men, women are much more sensitive to horomonal and metabolism changes then men so i wouldnt doubt that 1200 cals would do the same. Also i was taking into account that she was trying to lose quite a bit of weight so she already has some issues and she was throwing intense exercise on top of that.

    If sure you can find plenty of studies of women losing weight on very low calories but 99% will gain all the wwight back and more within 2 years.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Those scents are transitional and do not last very long at all.

    And you will feel high and wonderful on sugar until your blood sugar crashes every three hours and demands to be fed. Again.

    I climbed Mt Kilimangaro in ketosis. Yes I realize that weight lifting is a different kind of muscle and yes requires some more carbs if you do it often but don't tell me that someone who can make it to the top of the world's tallest freestanding mountain is not in "respectable" physical condition.

    You state stuff with such authority . But ur wrong. The brain can run entirely and happily on ketones. The only body function that requires glucose is the red blood cells but they don't need much. In a fat adapted body gluconeogenesis is not stressful at all. It is the most natural normal thing in the world.

    This is pure CW bs. Also Ayla is a very tiny woman. Her numbers and your numbers are different.

    I don't know where you get the energy to continue to try and set people straight on this stuff. I mean ambiguous claims of "stress" without any relevant studies or physiology to back it up should just be laughed at. But, its like a record that just keeps skipping along. Repeat it enough and I suppose people will believe it I guess....or at least they think it will.

    Oh, and for those of you reading "seratonin, adrenalin, and cortisol (lions and tigers and bears oh my!)" Sure these things CAN happen under certain circumstances. Particularly if you are not eating enough calories.....but that stands for any caloric deficit, not just ketosis.

    When things are running smoothly glucagon stimulates gluconeogenesis, not excessive cortisol and so on.

    This isn't to say ketosis is for everyone, but just get the physiology right.

    Hell, I don't live in ketosis. I dip into it once in a while. Nobodies saying (least not on this board) that everyone should live in such a state, but to call it anything other than yet another variant of ancestral and healthy way to eat is disingenuous.

    Since this IS an actual thread on ketosis rather than some haphazard carb war I'll post a couple things of relevance:

    http://www.ketotic.org/2012/07/ketog...ss-part-i.html

    And of course the mathematical proof of reduced stress through ketosis:

    http://www.lucastafur.com/2011/05/bioenergetics_08.html
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 01-18-2013 at 09:16 AM.

  10. #30
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    lol....just read the whole thread. So a very innocent post by OP is slammed upon by every sugar pusher on this site. NICE GUYS! Way to stay relevant.

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