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Thread: Paleobird's Adventures in Carnivorousness page 42

  1. #411
    RichMahogany's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    No, I don't have one but I used to (my Dad was diabetic). So I did monitor my own at one time and my insulin sensitivity is fine. I know my insulin sensitivity was completely whacked back in the day after I had chemo. (This was monitored by docs.) But that slowly turned around on a low carb Primal diet.
    I wish I had mine monitored before several years of low carb Primal. But all signs point to my insulin sensitivity having been broken by Wendy's and Pizza Hut and fixed by meat, cheese, eggs, and some leafy greens for plate dressing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I think the people who do really well on the highER carb side are some combination of most of these things:
    My n=1 going 1 by 1:
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    1)Young
    Well, I'm 31, so guilty in the eyes of some
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    2)Male
    guilty
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    3)Heavy exercisers
    guilty
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    4)Already at a fairly lean weight.
    guilty.

    So my recent foray into bananas and potatoes while lifting heavy with the express intention of bulking up/getting stronger has led to far less undesired weight gain than I had imagined, based on my previous experience as a sedentary, skinny-fat fast-food-and-Snickers-bars-and-beer addict. But likely because I fit 3 and a half of the above criteria.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    And yes, most of the above probably correlates with good insulin sensitivity. I don't think that eating carb bombs is necessary however in order to have good insulin sensitivity. (I read your thread about the 2nd meal effect). You have excellent insulin sensitivity because you lost all that excess weight on a low carb Primal diet. Then you became the Spud King while looking to lose the last ten vanity pounds. Don't forget what it was that got you most of the way however. Low carb Primal "fixed" your insulin sensitivity so now you can enjoy your spuds.
    This is a the one and only premise that I've heard/seen that makes sense of my experience. I agree 100% with this entire post, Robin. Keep fighting the good fight.

  2. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    I wish I had mine monitored before several years of low carb Primal. But all signs point to my insulin sensitivity having been broken by Wendy's and Pizza Hut and fixed by meat, cheese, eggs, and some leafy greens for plate dressing.

    My n=1 going 1 by 1:
    Well, I'm 31, so guilty in the eyes of some [like those of us who are 51, ya little whippersnapper!]
    guilty
    guilty
    guilty.

    So my recent foray into bananas and potatoes while lifting heavy with the express intention of bulking up/getting stronger has led to far less undesired weight gain than I had imagined, based on my previous experience as a sedentary, skinny-fat fast-food-and-Snickers-bars-and-beer addict. But likely because I fit 3 and a half of the above criteria.

    This is a the one and only premise that I've heard/seen that makes sense of my experience. I agree 100% with this entire post, Robin. Keep fighting the good fight.
    Exactly. Your sensitivity has been restored so you can handle more carbs. If you choose to eat them or not is up to you.

  3. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cierra View Post
    Paleobird I just have a couple questions for you. Sorry if you've already answered these, but this thread is pretty long and difficult to comb through.

    I don't want to be too blunt, but -- how do you afford to eat so much meat? It gets pretty pricey for me, even when I buy things like canned (wild caught, BPA-free, low mercury, etc etc.) fish. Do you order online, from a special place? Are you friends with hunters?
    How much meat do you consume in a day? Do you think it's more than a pound? Two pounds, more? Are you afraid of overdoing it on the protein? Just curious.
    Also, I just wanted to know if you eat dairy at all? I did read that you believe that eating vegetables causes a "starvation reaction" to the body as it recognizes veg to be a Plan B to fresh meat. What are your views on consuming dairy?

    Thanks in advance for your answers, and sorry if these questions are too personal!
    No, I don't mind. I wish I knew some hunters. Well, I don't really have the financial pressures that a lot of people do. True. But even on a budget, it is very doable and actually turns out, for me to be a wash as far as the grocery bills.

    I do buy meat in bulk which brings the cost down. Look into "cowpooling" in your area if you don't have the freezer space for that much.

    I also am not too proud to buy things that are labeled as "petfood". Both US Wellness meats and Grande Natural Meats (elkusa.com) sell ground meat mixes that include liver and other organs that we all know are good for us but might be a little icky IRL. The stuff is human quality product and processing but it's dirt cheap.

    Also, the "odd bits" of the animal can often be had at your local butcher counter for reduced rates and sometimes nothing since nobody else wants them. Don't be afraid to strike up a friendship with a butcher. USWM sells off cuts like a bison neck roast also in the pet section that would be great in the slow cooker.

    Also, try some non-cow meat now and then. Goat is dirt cheap and makes an awesome slow cooker meal.

    Seek out the little bodegas and butcher shops where people of different ethnicities shop. This is where you can get a whole lamb head and make head cheese. Be adventurous. Whole (Paycheck) Foods is obnoxious. I have plenty of money and I still won't pay their prices. There is no reason to.

    About quantities, yes, I eat about a pound of meat or seafood a day. 1 lb of USWM Petburger is $4.50. That's not so expensive. Plus I am NOT paying for all the organic salads and such that only take up space on the plate, IMO.

    About overdoing the protein, I saw an interesting video of Nora Gedgaudas yesterday in which she says that, if one had been a serious sugar burner then turned primal, and kept shoveling in excess protein, the body would continue to make glucose as fast as it could and never really get ketotic. So yes it is important to not overdo the portions. She then goes on to point out that if one never really had been that much of a glucose junkie, one could feasibly get away with a greater portion size without triggering excess gluconeogenesis. So I think this is an individual call. Personally I never did eat sugar or much in the way of grains. I never had a day of carb flu. So I think I am one of those people who can handle a little more than others.

    I will try to find that video for you..............here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovgJsEcIAzg

    Yes, I do eat dairy and I think that is another very individual call to make. Every person had a different place to "draw the line" between what works and what bothers them. For me the line is all fermented and/or raw dairy products are in, others out. For me dairy gives me an easy alternative to meat that keeps protein choices interesting. I don't see any reason why you should avoid it if it doesn't cause you problems. The body recognizes dairy as animal sourced proteins and fat. This signals "good hunting" just like meat.

    For some people, even if it causes them no physical distress, dairy can be a really easy thing to overeat. Be careful if this is a weak spot for you.
    Last edited by Paleobird; 04-11-2013 at 03:07 PM.

  4. #414
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    Hi Paleobird!

    Thanks for this post. I just started a carnivorous diet a few days ago. Can you give us an update on how it's worked out for you? Have you lost weight, feeling better, etc.? Do you eat any of your meat raw?

  5. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cierra View Post
    Thanks, all really insightful information! I've been afraid to dive into organ meats so far, but I'm getting there... slowly! I appreciate you taking the time to answer all my silly lil questions!
    No problem. Pate' is a good way to get started on offal for the slightly squeamish. https://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65193.html

    Quote Originally Posted by mugsaucecity View Post
    Hi Paleobird!

    Thanks for this post. I just started a carnivorous diet a few days ago. Can you give us an update on how it's worked out for you? Have you lost weight, feeling better, etc.? Do you eat any of your meat raw?
    It's working great. I'm at maintenance weight right now so I am not really trying to lose anything. My main goal is maintaining deep nutritional ketosis is order to keep my epilepsy under control with less medication. That is going great. 25% less on each of my two meds with no problems.

    About eating raw. I do like good sashimi. That is probably the thing I eat raw most often. I also like a good steak tartare or carpaccio but that is a once in a while treat. I really don't see that there is any nutritional benefit to be had from eating it raw but it is nice to have some now and then just for variety.

    If I were trying to lose weight on this woe, I would think it would be pretty easy. I only get hungry once a day. A little portion control on dinner and I would be losing.

    Oh, and Cierra can add that to the list of reasons why this woe is not any more expensive than others. 1 meal a day instead of 3.

  6. #416
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    I love this post for so many reasons.

    I have been fighting with my digestive track for months now. I'll have a few good weeks, then it seems to revert back. It takes a lot of experimentation and a LOT more self-control. I still feel awkward in social situations when I'm the only one not eating the pizza or drinking the alcohol....

    I also have an acne problem (again, on and off) - I've been reading that acne is a liver problem, meaning it's overloaded with toxins so they get pushed into the bloodstream, and that red meat creates by-products that go to the liver. Now I KNOW, I know - red meat is not bad for you because the sat. fat and dietary cholesterol thing is a myth, but do you have any problems with your liver functioning? Do you eat red meat to white meat and fish 50/50 or do you focus more on the fish, fowl and eggs?

    Also your post has got me thinking maybe I SHOULD give up some of the veggies I don't like. I eat them because I believe they have necessary nutrients, but sometimes it's torture to force down the spinach. Yuck.

    Your opinion is again appreciated
    Started eating Primal in October 2011.
    Started lifting heavy things on October 26, 2012.
    Started sugar detox: November 12, 2012
    [may or may not have been purposely before Thanksgiving]


  7. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by egrok View Post
    I love this post for so many reasons.

    I have been fighting with my digestive track for months now. I'll have a few good weeks, then it seems to revert back. It takes a lot of experimentation and a LOT more self-control. I still feel awkward in social situations when I'm the only one not eating the pizza or drinking the alcohol....

    I also have an acne problem (again, on and off) - I've been reading that acne is a liver problem, meaning it's overloaded with toxins so they get pushed into the bloodstream, and that red meat creates by-products that go to the liver. Now I KNOW, I know - red meat is not bad for you because the sat. fat and dietary cholesterol thing is a myth, but do you have any problems with your liver functioning? Do you eat red meat to white meat and fish 50/50 or do you focus more on the fish, fowl and eggs?

    Also your post has got me thinking maybe I SHOULD give up some of the veggies I don't like. I eat them because I believe they have necessary nutrients, but sometimes it's torture to force down the spinach. Yuck.

    Your opinion is again appreciated
    Meat has way more nutrients than spinach is ever going to have and the nutrients are more bio-avaliable. The oxalates in spinach actually bind up some other nutrients in our foods and keep us from getting at them.

    As to what kind of protein. I focus on ruminant meats and seafood. Plus eggs. I eat whole critter nose to tail including lots of things like liver, bone broth, and some weird stuff like head cheese. I don't eat pork or chicken but I do eat occasional wild game birds and wild boar. Seafood is really important in making this diet balanced IMO.

    About the acne. Do you eat milk products? I have heard of a lot of people seeing results from dropping it. I find I do well with dairy as long as it is fermented and/or raw. But that is an individual thing. Might be worth a try.

    And my liver function is fine. Due to post cancer follow up exams, it has been tested and I'm doing great. What messes up your liver's ability to clear toxins is sugar.
    Last edited by Paleobird; 05-07-2013 at 12:38 AM.

  8. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Meat has way more nutrients than spinach is ever going to have and the nutrients are more bio-avaliable. The oxalates in spinach actually bind up some other nutrients in our foods and keep us from getting at them.

    As to what kind of protein. I focus on ruminant meats and seafood. Plus eggs. I eat whole critter nose to tail including lots of things like liver, bone broth, and some weird stuff like head cheese. I don't eat pork or chicken but I do eat occasional wild game birds and wild boar. Seafood is really important in making this diet balanced IMO.

    About the acne. Do you eat milk products? I have heard of a lot of people seeing results from dropping it. I find I do well with dairy as long as it is fermented and/or raw. But that is an individual thing. Might be worth a try.

    And my liver function is fine. Due to post cancer follow up exams, it has been tested and I'm doing great. What messes up your liver's ability to clear toxins is sugar.

    Thanks for the thorough response! Yes, I gave up dairy a few months ago (despite my vicious love-affair with cheese). It helped for a while, then I don't know what happened. I know get breakouts when I cheat and have pizza and ice cream, but unfortunately alcohol plays a role too.
    And since sugar messes up the liver, that would make sense. Eating clean in the college social world is so hard. I think the only way I can be 100% healthy and acne-free is if I become a hermit haha.

    Glad to see that the red meat isn't negatively affecting your liver. I will remember that when I'm cooking up my grass-fed tacos tonight
    Started eating Primal in October 2011.
    Started lifting heavy things on October 26, 2012.
    Started sugar detox: November 12, 2012
    [may or may not have been purposely before Thanksgiving]


  9. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Meat has way more nutrients than spinach is ever going to have and the nutrients are more bio-avaliable. The oxalates in spinach actually bind up some other nutrients in our foods and keep us from getting at them.

    As to what kind of protein. I focus on ruminant meats and seafood. Plus eggs. I eat whole critter nose to tail including lots of things like liver, bone broth, and some weird stuff like head cheese. I don't eat pork or chicken but I do eat occasional wild game birds and wild boar. Seafood is really important in making this diet balanced IMO.

    About the acne. Do you eat milk products? I have heard of a lot of people seeing results from dropping it. I find I do well with dairy as long as it is fermented and/or raw. But that is an individual thing. Might be worth a try.

    And my liver function is fine. Due to post cancer follow up exams, it has been tested and I'm doing great. What messes up your liver's ability to clear toxins is sugar.
    Just read your first post and I am for sure intrigued. I'm doing the steak and eggs diet now and life is just fantastic. I love eating animals and I've never gotten particularly much enjoyment from most vegetables. I'm also a pretty good cook and can make almost anything taste fantastic. But I prefer meat.

    It's great: just during the steak and egg challenge I've found that things like liver, heart, sweetbreads, cheap cuts of roasting meat, and inexpensive steaks can be had for around the same price as fresh produce. I make my own kefir and yogurt, and I'll never give those up, just as I'll never give up blueberries and dark chocolate. But damn it would be so great to be able to sit down to a plate of animal every night without the burden of incorporating fresh vegetables.

    If I were to give this a go, what lessons would you pass on? I am a perennial student so I'm on a budget, but I'm happy going out of my way to find cheap nose-to-tail meats and I love eggs. Thanks again for the thread! I hope to profit from your adventure!

  10. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by egrok View Post
    Thanks for the thorough response! Yes, I gave up dairy a few months ago (despite my vicious love-affair with cheese). It helped for a while, then I don't know what happened. I know get breakouts when I cheat and have pizza and ice cream, but unfortunately alcohol plays a role too.
    And since sugar messes up the liver, that would make sense. Eating clean in the college social world is so hard. I think the only way I can be 100% healthy and acne-free is if I become a hermit haha.

    Glad to see that the red meat isn't negatively affecting your liver. I will remember that when I'm cooking up my grass-fed tacos tonight
    Yep. The booze gets preferential treatment by your liver because it is seen as a toxin. It moves to the head of the line for processing. Anything else you ingested along with the booze may just get put into storage (i.e.fat) until the liver can get around to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajm422 View Post
    Just read your first post and I am for sure intrigued. I'm doing the steak and eggs diet now and life is just fantastic. I love eating animals and I've never gotten particularly much enjoyment from most vegetables. I'm also a pretty good cook and can make almost anything taste fantastic. But I prefer meat.

    It's great: just during the steak and egg challenge I've found that things like liver, heart, sweetbreads, cheap cuts of roasting meat, and inexpensive steaks can be had for around the same price as fresh produce. I make my own kefir and yogurt, and I'll never give those up, just as I'll never give up blueberries and dark chocolate. But damn it would be so great to be able to sit down to a plate of animal every night without the burden of incorporating fresh vegetables.

    If I were to give this a go, what lessons would you pass on? I am a perennial student so I'm on a budget, but I'm happy going out of my way to find cheap nose-to-tail meats and I love eggs. Thanks again for the thread! I hope to profit from your adventure!
    Yes I have read your animals vs plants thread with your lady Grok. Very interesting.

    There's a whole thread in the recipe section about "Help me learn to love kale", but it is really about, "Help me find ways to disguise the taste of this stuff so I can choke it down". Why bother?

    I really think there is an element in the Primal mindset that says to the CW world, "But look, we eat veggies. Really we do. Lots of them. This is a healthy diet. See? ,<chomp, chomp on the BAS>" Why do we need CW approval?

    And yes the cost really does break even if you are not eating filet mignon every night.

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