Paleobird's Adventures in Carnivorousness page 25

[Paleobird]

Any reference for Vit C in liver? Everything I've read says not much. Brains, thymus and pancreas are all much better sources of C

Wiki says:

Animal sources

Goats, like almost all animals, make their own vitamin C. An adult goat, weighing approx. 70 kg, will manufacture more than 13,000 mg of vitamin C per day in normal health, and levels manyfold higher when faced with stress.[137][138]
The overwhelming majority of species of animals (but not humans or guinea pigs) and plants synthesise their own vitamin C.[139]

Therefore, some animal products can be used as sources of dietary vitamin C.
Vitamin C is most present in the liver and least present in the muscle. Since muscle provides the majority of meat consumed in the western human diet, animal products are not a reliable source of the vitamin. Vitamin C is present in human breast milk, but not present in raw cow's milk.[140] All excess vitamin C is disposed of through the urinary system.

The following table shows the relative abundance of vitamin C in various foods of animal origin, given in milligrams of vitamin C per 100 grams of food:

Animal Source Amount (mg / 100g)

Calf liver (raw) 36
Beef liver (raw) 31
Oysters (raw) 30
Cod roe (fried) 26
Pork liver (raw) 23
Lamb brain (boiled) 17
Chicken liver (fried) 13
Lamb liver (fried) 12
Calf adrenals (raw) 11
Lamb heart (roast) 11
Lamb tongue (stewed) 6
Camel milk (fresh) 5
Human milk (fresh) 4
Goat milk (fresh) 2
Cow milk (fresh) 2


I'm not sure how much those numbers might vary depending on the animals' diets too. Those are probably CAFO numbers. I bet my fruit farm mascot critters have even more.

[peril]

Huge variation between that list and what nutrition data has for beef and veal liver. Your list seems more consistent. So around 300g of offal per day, discounting your dirty sources, to get the recommended 90g/day. More if you subscribe to Pauling's theory

[cori93437]

Vitamin c can be destroyed by heat so I wouldn't be reliant on cooked foods for C sources.

Depends on the method of cooking... as noted if you look up the nutrition data for the separate types of livers.
Raw, fried, and simmered.
High heat frying destroys the vitamin C in the liver...
An ounce of simmered chicken liver has slightly more available C.
Or that is because some of the liquids have cooked off and you have a more compact product. Thus more liver in a weighed oz.
Either way... the vitamin C is still there with gentle heat.

Don't use high heat if you want all the available C.
It's not rocket science.

I use the same logic when cooking other offal such as sweetbreads, spleen, and brains.
Gentle heat.
You shouldn't be beating these lovelies up with heat anyway IMO.

Also, +1000 to those being CAFO numbers and pastured well fed animals having better.
I liked seeing the lambs heart and on that list above. Yummy.

Another point is the stressing of the 100% DV of C everyday or you'll get scurvy.
Umm, I'm sorry but. Bullshit.
If that were true Americans eating Doritos, candy bars, and hungry man meals all day would likely have scurvy left and right.
Some days you'll get more than enough C... other days less. That stuff balances.

Ever forage guavas growing over on that coast Paleobird?
Massive C!

[Paleobird]

I have been finding the same with my bone broths. I made yak bone broth with turmeric and lots of black pepper and it was the bomb! I could just feel the nourishment every time I drank it piping hot! Just hope my current beef broth can hold it's own after that batch.

Where do you get YAK bones? I want some.

Vitamin c can be destroyed by heat so I wouldn't be reliant on cooked foods for C sources.

Thats what the guac, lime juice in the Pelegrino, and oysters on the half shell appetizer is for.

I have heard that your need for certain vitamins, including C, changes with your diet. You need less than the RDA on a meat centered diet and more on a grain centered diet.

Yes without the grain getting in the way of the nutrient absorption yes, the RDA numbers are irrelevant for Primal peeps.

Huge variation between that list and what nutrition data has for beef and veal liver. Your list seems more consistent. So around 300g of offal per day, discounting your dirty sources, to get the recommended 90g/day. More if you subscribe to Pauling's theory

I think Pauling was off by quite a bit.

Depends on the method of cooking... as noted if you look up the nutrition data for the separate types of livers.
Raw, fried, and simmered.
High heat frying destroys the vitamin C in the liver...
An ounce of simmered chicken liver has slightly more available C.
Or that is because some of the liquids have cooked off and you have a more compact product. Thus more liver in a weighed oz.
Either way... the vitamin C is still there with gentle heat.

Don't use high heat if you want all the available C.
It's not rocket science.

I use the same logic when cooking other offal such as sweetbreads, spleen, and brains.
Gentle heat.
You shouldn't be beating these lovelies up with heat anyway IMO.

Also, +1000 to those being CAFO numbers and pastured well fed animals having better.
I liked seeing the lambs heart and on that list above. Yummy.

Another point is the stressing of the 100% DV of C everyday or you'll get scurvy.
Umm, I'm sorry but. Bullshit.
If that were true Americans eating Doritos, candy bars, and hungry man meals all day would likely have scurvy left and right.
Some days you'll get more than enough C... other days less. That stuff balances.

Ever forage guavas growing over on that coast Paleobird?
Massive C!

Yes, indeed. Gentle heat. Also when you say the "liquids have cooked off" that only matters if you don't blend the liquids back into your pate and eat them.

I have a guava tree in the front yard. The fruit farm where I get my meat also had wonderful guavas. I wonder if munching on guavas and lots of citrus all their lives makes a difference in the vitamin C content of the critters.

[Drumroll]

I'm making a pork roast tonight. Just for me. Guess what? No veggies!

Heh. I'd have some sauerkraut with it I suppose, but I'm out until the farmer's market on Sunday.

[Paleobird]

I went to a catered dinner tonight done by Boston Market so there was some decent roast chicken. I put a few other things on my plate too just to not look weird like mixed veggies and a bit of salad. I ended up picking the feta off the salad. The one bite I had of the lettuce tasted like hay. The veggies were steamed to death. I ended up going back for seconds on the chicken an tossing the rest.

[Primal Moose]

Well, PB, you've inspired me. I'm going to go a few months of eating mainly carnivorously...keep my kelp; my raw, organic, homemade kraut; my sauteed kale and swiss chard chicken salad; and flavorings...but other than that, no more veggies or fruit, at least until there is some fruit in season at the farmers markets.

Already eating lots of offal and sea food; love sea food and offal (and a couple "strange" cuts) is the only meat I can afford from my grass-fed beef/pasture pork supplier. Well see how this goes...at least my carb fog will be in the beginning of the semester by doing this now ha.

[ulnauy]

Yay for Primal parenting. We will raise a new tribe the right way.


My diet evolution has been this:
1)Health Food CW most of my life (whole grains, lots of veggies, moderate animal protein, lots of soy)
2)Went "low carb" on the "No White Foods" plan and just eating bigger salads to fill in the gaps. Lost 30 lbs.
3)Found Primal, ditched the soy, fake sweeteners but acquired a taste for bacon and gained weight.
4)Figured out Primal Plus Portion Control and lost the last 35.
5)Moved toward ketosis for seizure control and found it to be great for maintaining weight w/o counting
6)Veggies seem to just be getting in the way, not adding much and taking up space so I started researching carnivorousness.

I see the recommendations for large amount of veggies to be the same kind of CW as 5-7 servings of healthywholegrains.

I think it's awesome that you've been open to change and experimentation like this. I spend all day trying to convince people to be open minded but all they want is a pill or the lap band.

[Paleobird]

Well, PB, you've inspired me. I'm going to go a few months of eating mainly carnivorously...keep my kelp; my raw, organic, homemade kraut; my sauteed kale and swiss chard chicken salad; and flavorings...but other than that, no more veggies or fruit, at least until there is some fruit in season at the farmers markets.

Already eating lots of offal and sea food; love sea food and offal (and a couple "strange" cuts) is the only meat I can afford from my grass-fed beef/pasture pork supplier. Well see how this goes...at least my carb fog will be in the beginning of the semester by doing this now ha.

This is JMO of course but I swear I honestly don't know how anyone can say they like kale with a straight face. Chard is ok, kind of like spinach, with enough butter and garlic or a cream sauce it's palatable.

I think that is a good point about waiting for seasonal fruit. And I do like my sea veggies too.

I think it's awesome that you've been open to change and experimentation like this. I spend all day trying to convince people to be open minded but all they want is a pill or the lap band.

Thank you. Are you a doctor IRL?

[heatseeker]

This is JMO of course but I swear I honestly don't know how anyone can say they like kale with a straight face.

I F*$%ING LOVE KALE. Paleobird, I think if we ever met IRL we'd side-eye each other to death. Or fight. Or bang.