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Thread: Resistant Starch - A Solution In Search of a Problem page 20

  1. #191
    Neckhammer's Avatar
    Neckhammer is offline Senior Member
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    This thread has been quite entertaining....gotta say

  2. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Good luck on this RS crap and whatever your next big diet "hack" is.

    Uh-oh...your buddy Matt likes RS, too. Maybe my next hack will be 180 degree health. Resistant Starch – 180 Degree Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Is it a fact, Otzi?
    I guess I should have worded that differently. I meant, 'does the fact that RS is promoted and studied by a CW Food Giant negate that it may be a crucial part of gut health?'. Not defending it at this point.

    I agree, populations have gone without starch, but I don't think that makes a starch-free modern diet the best you could do, unless you needed to use low-carb/ketosis for a therapeutic intervention.
    Last edited by otzi; 01-29-2013 at 12:53 PM.

  3. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Is it a fact, Otzi? Given that there have been large stretches of human evolution that took place during ice ages (permafrost=no starchy plants growing) and we didn't die out, I would say we can do just fine without RS. I think of it not so much as *needed* thing but as something that won't hurt you.
    I think your analysis of what happened at the corn industry marketing conference is spot on. That website your queen mentioned is an ode to CW beliefs about fiber. It starts out with the unsubstantiated claim, "Everybody needs fiber", as if it were just the most obvious thing in the world.
    Yes, the question still remains: Do we need RS? Is there a real benefit? If so, what are the optimal amounts and what is the best non-processed source. This thread has been an interesting twisting ride. I for one appreciate Otzi's experimentation even if he leaps to early to conclusions and lets his enthusiasm for the next big idea propel him forward a bit incautiously. I am eating more spuds than in the past (convergence of PHD, Wolf, others) for the carbs/starch, whether resistant or not.

  4. #194
    Knifegill's Avatar
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    And here I am, STILL can't digest a banana or a potato. *kicks a rock*


    Turquoisepassion:
    Knifegill is christened to be high carb now!
    notontherug:
    the buttstuff...never interested.
    He gives me Lamprey Kisses in the midnight sea
    Flubby tubby gums latching onto me
    For all that I've done wrong, I mastodon something right...

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  5. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    And here I am, STILL can't digest a banana or a potato. *kicks a rock*
    You know... if that were lactose you were having trouble with people would tell you that it was ok... that you were just intolerant, not broken and in need of fixing.

    I think people are behind the curve on this one.
    I think some people are intolerant of oligosaccharides... and that fermenting them in the gut makes them a bit ill, just like lactose makes some people a bit ill.

    My 2c.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  6. #196
    Knifegill's Avatar
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    You might be onto something there.


    Turquoisepassion:
    Knifegill is christened to be high carb now!
    notontherug:
    the buttstuff...never interested.
    He gives me Lamprey Kisses in the midnight sea
    Flubby tubby gums latching onto me
    For all that I've done wrong, I mastodon something right...

    My pony picture thread http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82786.html

  7. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Here's what I think...a big 'food giant' company was making High Fructose Corn Syrup when suddenly the world became aware that HFCS was 'evil', sales dropped, and they had to re-brand themselves. Some smart employee realized that Resistant Starch was getting a lot of attention, so they diverted some corn from the HFCS factory to a new RS factory. They then had to produce lots of science to back their claims that everyone on the planet needs a heapin' helpin' of RS everyday. They diverted lots of investors' money into science and research and came up with lots of data showing the benefits of RS on colon health, insulin resistance, obesity, and whatever else.
    You guys write really good fiction. The High Fructose Corn Syrup company bought the big starch company only three years ago. But, the resistant starch research started in 1984 and has been generated by independent scientists for years. Different people around the world are working on different aspects of it - it's publishable, interesting, and helping them to figure out physiological mechanisms of how the body works. If only there was a mega-smart corporate hack..... I'm on the floor laughing my head off.

    I don't know if RS is essential or not. I think it's a viable option that contributes to colonic health and contributes to long-term health. Other types of fiber may do the same thing - researchers just don't know (and the research to find out is expensive and slow in getting done). Let's go on the assumption that fermentable fiber is good. Different types do different things but it's generally good. If you don't have a good fermentation going on, you're getting digestive diseases, toxins crossing the intestinal barrier and other nasties happening. The fermentation of RS helps keep colon tissue healthy. That's what they showed in a recent paper. In people that had colitis that developed because the contents of their intestinal tract were diverted, RS was delivered to the colon and the "mucosal appearance returned to normal".

    Natural RS has a very high dose tolerance - other fermentable fibers create gas, cramping, bloating, etc at levels they put into nutrition bars. RS is fermented slowly - you can get enough of it to help you. Most studies find that people can eat about 75 grams of Hi-maize resistant starch (that's 40 grams of fiber) before researchers find a statistically significant increase in gas.

    If you want to follow the money, examine the amount of pharma funds going into the development of GLP-1 analogues (Novo Nordisk’s liraglutide) and incretin enhancers (Merck's Januvia and Novartis’ Vildagliptin). These drugs are the recent darlings of the diabetes world as they both help to control blood sugar and help people to feel less hungry and lose weight. RS appears to naturally target the exact same mechanisms in the gut, but helps keep the colon healthy to boot. Pharma has a lot more money to get the data to show the effects and commercialize the drugs to make money, but it's leading the the same place. Which brings us back to an original question - eat foods rich in RS (and not tons of high glycemic carbs) and don't develop insulin resistance, or eat un-healthy food, develop first insulin resistance, then diabetes and then get treated with these drugs. If you're stuck somewhere in the middle and have already developed insulin resistance, I would absolutely take all precautions and dietary approaches to reverse it. RS helps with this, no doubt about it. I for one can't eat raw potatoes and my family won't eat beans or green bananas very often.

    And to answer the question about GMO - Hi-maize is still natural and not genetically modified. The high amylose corn that it comes from has been in the food industry for 30+ years. It is a natural hybrid that has been heat and moisture treated.

    And yes, you need to carefully read the scientific papers to confirm their findings. Maki found improved insulin sensitivity in men but not in women. He used methods accepted in the research and measurement of insulin sensitivity. Denise Robertson at the University of Surrey has found improved sensitivity and lower levels of insulin in men and women using the gold standard method for measuring insulin sensitivity (the hyperinsulinemic euglycemic clamp). They are still investigating the mechanisms behind it. Animal studies suggest that GLP-1 and PYY and other hormones produced in the gut are involved, but the data isn't there to confirm the exact mechanism in humans. But the fact remains - people who have eaten Hi-maize have lower levels of insulin and higher glucose uptake into their muscle tissues than people who have not eaten Hi-maize.

  8. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    You know... if that were lactose you were having trouble with people would tell you that it was ok... that you were just intolerant, not broken and in need of fixing.

    I think people are behind the curve on this one.
    I think some people are intolerant of oligosaccharides... and that fermenting them in the gut makes them a bit ill, just like lactose makes some people a bit ill.

    My 2c.
    Oligosaccharides are soluble and fermented very quickly. The dose tolerance in most people is 10-15 grams/day. In some people, it's lower. These fibers also have good data that they're beneficial - if you can tolerate the amount that you'd need for the effects.

  9. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSQueen View Post
    Oligosaccharides are soluble and fermented very quickly. The dose tolerance in most people is 10-15 grams/day. In some people, it's lower. These fibers also have good data that they're beneficial - if you can tolerate the amount that you'd need for the effects.
    Yes.

    The issue I was speaking to is the fact that a few members of our community feel that if a persons tolerance for oligosaccharides is on the low side that it is because they are "broken" and they need to be "fixed" somehow, not because they simply have a lower tolerance to a different substance, which is why I made the comparison to people who are lactose intolerant and cannot drink say milk without getting the effects, but who can put cream in their coffee and be fine.
    Last edited by cori93437; 01-29-2013 at 03:46 PM.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  10. #200
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    RSQueen - If a good way of using Hi-Maize for RS is to put it in a smoothie, wouldn't potato starch be just as, or more, effective?

    If thinking a product like: Potato Starch :: Bob's Red Mill Natural Foods

    The charts all give 'native' potato starch a 78% or so RS content, while Hi-Maize is around 50% (from memory).

    I think the problem with potato starch is that once it's heated, all the RS is gone, whereas Hi-Maize retains it's RS even when heated. As an additive to baked goods, Hi-Maize has a place in the standard American diet, but as a tool to increase RS, wouldn't potato starch be just as good or better (when used cold)?

    Thanks for playing with us!

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