Resistant Starch - A Solution In Search of a Problem page 2

[Paleobird]

RS is nothing more than Type III fiber right after soluble and insoluble. I thought we collectively got over our obsession about dietary fiber when we got over eating Kashi.

It's not that it's bad for you, just not necessary.

The point PK was trying to make about lactose intolerance and legumes was about carbs that reach the large intestine intact.

And all the studies Otzi keeps posting about RS being so essential are from the same folks who think All Bran Cereal is great.

[otzi]

RS is nothing more than Type III fiber right after soluble and insoluble. I thought we collectively got over our obsession about dietary fiber when we got over eating Kashi.

It's not that it's bad for you, just not necessary.

The point PK was trying to make about lactose intolerance and legumes was about carbs that reach the large intestine intact.

And all the studies Otzi keeps posting about RS being so essential are from the same folks who think All Bran Cereal is great.

Hey, PB - I would think you, of all people, would see past the 'carb' part and realize that the health of the colon is of way more importance than restricting carbs for whatever reason.

I promised not to post anymore links, so you'll have to research this on your own.

The colon is lined by special cells called colonocytes. They are special in that they get their energy from the bacteria which reside in your large intestine. Starved of substrate, they undergo autophagy and die. They do not get fed if you eat butyrate, only if you eat a resistant starch...not soluble or insoluble fiber, but resistant starch. This is where the claim that RS is protective of colon cancer comes from.

Protecting the gut and having a flourishing population of gut microflora is of utmost importance. That is not wild speculation by the Rice Crispy Corp.

Someone who needs to stay in ketosis for medical reasons, could still provide RS at 20-100g per day and stay in ketosis as RS is not turned into blood sugar and actually creates it's own SCFA, enhancing ketosis.

It is really, really bizarre to me that you guys find this line of thinking superfluous. Starch, meh. Resistant Starch, yeah!

[Drumroll]

You guys (especially otzi) will probably like this video on gut evolution:

"Clues from the colon: How this organ illuminates our digestive evolution and microniche" by Melissa McEwen on Vimeo

The presenter seems to be of the opinion that some people are able to synthesize more butyrate in the gut naturally than others. It seems that African populations seemed to have better adaptations in their gut to create butyrate than say, white Europeans who do this very inefficiently.

Edit: She implies that eating foods that have been fermented BEFORE consumption (ie sauerkraut and pickles, ect.) reproduce many of the effects of internal gut fermentation and are extremely good sources of medium chain fatty acids such as butyrate, so we many not even NEED to rely on internal gut fermentation for it which is good news for folks who ferment in their guts rather poorly.

[Paleobird]

Hey, PB - I would think you, of all people, would see past the 'carb' part and realize that the health of the colon is of way more importance than restricting carbs for whatever reason.

The colon is lined by special cells called colonocytes. They are special in that they get their energy from the bacteria which reside in your large intestine. Starved of substrate, they undergo autophagy and die. They do not get fed if you eat butyrate, only if you eat a resistant starch...not soluble or insoluble fiber, but resistant starch. This is where the claim that RS is protective of colon cancer comes from.

Someone who needs to stay in ketosis for medical reasons, could still provide RS at 20-100g per day and stay in ketosis as RS is not turned into blood sugar and actually creates it's own SCFA, enhancing ketosis.

You have yet to come up with any backing for this statement although I have asked you more than once. Butyrate is named for the richest most concentrated place it is found, BUTTER. You have yet to show that butter does not nourish all cells in the body.

PK's title says it all. You have found a solution for which there is no problem. Yes flourishing gut microflora to digest potatoes are important if you are going to continue eating potatoes that need them in order to be digested and used by us. Don't eat the potatoes, no need for the hind gut fermentation.

And no, I can't stay in ketosis while eating potatoes. Tried it. All that gets me is carb flu and weight gain.

Besides I DON'T LIKE POTATOES. OK? Sheesh.

[Timthetaco]

Most probably won't read this, but whatever. About butyrate.

The Carb-Sane Asylum: AHS(?) Bumpity Bump Bump: When is Fat a Fat?
The Carb-Sane Asylum: Resistant Starch & Butyrate: Eades' Shmashthematics

Important quote: "I think comparing these two sources of butyrate also deserves some scrutiny. Butyrate is a small water soluble compound. Delivered orally in butter, one wonders how much actually reaches the colon (large intestine) vs. the butyrate generated by bacterial fermentation of fibers "on location". Think what you will of the pharmaceutical industry, you can learn a lot from delivery methods employed. Indeed sodium butyrate is used in the treatment of Crohn's disease, and supplements are coated to ensure release in the ileo-caecal region and colon. This would lead me to believe that the majority of butyrate in butter is absorbed well before it gets to the end of the small intestine and large intestine in the fully developed digestive system."

Certain medications are enteric coated for a good reason. I remember as part of my employer's CPhT certification a hospital pharmacist came in for a talk. She gave us oranges to inject with insulin so we could learn how to properly use a syringe. At the end of the class she asked us if the oranges were safe to eat. They were, as it happened; the insulin was broken down by the acid in the oranges, which is why it's only administered parenterally.

Unrelated note: The insulin injections made the oranges fat.

[jammies]

I don't mean to change the subject too much here, but this thread has me wondering if there is any link between resistant starches and depression. I developed severe depression after 2.5 successful years of following an auto-immune paleo diet (no nightshades, potatoes, nuts, dairy, etc). I tried every dietary and supplement treatment I could come up with.

Looking at this, I would think my diet was pretty low in RS. Could that have contibuted?

[jammies]

Sorry - double post.

[Neckhammer]

Someone who needs to stay in ketosis for medical reasons, could still provide RS at 20-100g per day and stay in ketosis as RS is not turned into blood sugar and actually creates it's own SCFA, enhancing ketosis.

It is really, really bizarre to me that you guys find this line of thinking superfluous. Starch, meh. Resistant Starch, yeah!

Ok, just curious on this. Are you suggesting there are no negative consequences to eating the amount of raw potato or whatever necessary to reach these levels? I mean I'm gonna read some more of the links, but I don't see how thats gonna work.

[Zach]

You have yet to come up with any backing for this statement although I have asked you more than once. Butyrate is named for the richest most concentrated place it is found, BUTTER. You have yet to show that butter does not nourish all cells in the body.

PK's title says it all. You have found a solution for which there is no problem. Yes flourishing gut microflora to digest potatoes are important if you are going to continue eating potatoes that need them in order to be digested and used by us. Don't eat the potatoes, no need for the hind gut fermentation.

And no, I can't stay in ketosis while eating potatoes. Tried it. All that gets me is carb flu and weight gain.

Besides I DON'T LIKE POTATOES. OK? Sheesh.

Good point PB, why do we need butyrate from RS when we can get it direct from butter?

Also PB, do you think the large intestine should be relatively sterile then, ala Peat?

[Drumroll]

Oooh! To compliment the last video I posted... This is good stuff.

"The rainforest in your gut: A brief tour through your intestinal biome, why it’s messed up, and how to fix it" by Dr. BG & TG on Vimeo