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Thread: Resistant Starch - A Solution In Search of a Problem page 10

  1. #91
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    ChocoTaco369 is offline Senior Member
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    I'll tell you what, I love me some cold hash browns. I ate some for lunch today - I grated 3 white potatoes and 1 small onion, threw in some salt, pepper and extra hot chili powder and baked til crispy last night - and woo boy, good stuff. But raw potato...eek. I will pass on that, I don't care if it has some kind of magical weight loss property (which I'm sure it doesn't). I'd rather just skip a meal
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    I'll tell you what, I love me some cold hash browns. I ate some for lunch today - I grated 3 white potatoes and 1 small onion, threw in some salt, pepper and extra hot chili powder and baked til crispy last night - and woo boy, good stuff. But raw potato...eek. I will pass on that, I don't care if it has some kind of magical weight loss property (which I'm sure it doesn't). I'd rather just skip a meal
    Next time you are cutting up potatoes for cooking, take a nice 1/4" slice, sprinkle with a little seasalt and crunch away. Very tasty. And if there's some magical worm food in it to feed your gut friends, even better.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Golly, guys, give me a break!

    Here's where this whole mess started and then I'm done:

    I made an observation a while back that RS is considered healthful to gut flora and colon health, but that the RS is almost completely absent from the Primal Blueprint diet. I then learnt that potatoes and rice contain RS, and that including them in your diet will at least give you SAD levels of a safer RS than grains. Eating cooked and cooled rice or potatoes ups that a bit more.

    How this took such a terrible turn, I will never know...I feel I was baited into this by PKLOPP who is still sore everyone called him a douchebag for saying he was doing a potato diet, but including meat and dairy.

    I stand behind my assertion: "RS is important for gut health and may impart beneficial metabolism improvement. Therefore we should seek out and eat PB approved sources like potato and rice"

    That's all!
    The fundamental problem, OTZI, is that you decided on your conclusion, that eating potatoes solely is a good thing, and then went out looking for data to support that. This is the very definition of confirmation bias. In your quest to justify that abomination of an all potato diet, you happened upon some Wikipedia comment regarding RS and retrogradation of starch in cold potatoes, and then made your comment about yet another reason to eat potatoes.

    I merely came along to point out how ridiculous that statement is. And it is ridiculous. My post that started this whole multi-page back and forth with you in this thread pointed out that the reason RS is in any sense "important for gut health" is solely due the fact that it is a carbohydrate that makes it through the digestive tract intact to the colon where it can be fermented. Other carbohydrates have this exact same property, and if you are really intent on colonic fermentation you can do much much better than some cold potatoes:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Effects of Inulin on Gut Health and Bifidobacterial Populations in the Colon
    Inulins are important constituents of dietary fiber that are present in a wide variety of foodstuffs of plant origin that act as prebiotics, which enhance gut colonization by beneficial bacteria, principally the bifidobacteria. Inulins consist of linear and branched polymers of repeating fructosyl units that range between 2 and 60 units in length. These polysaccharides are resistant to the host metabolism in the upper digestive tract, but are fermented by bacteria in the colon. Diets in the developed world that often comprise highly processed foods contain lower than desirable levels of inulin and dietary fiber generally. Inulins added to foods help maintain the mucosal barrier in the gut and are claimed to reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease and cancer and maintain gut health particularly in infants and the elderly. In recent years, inulins have been increasingly recognized as important in digestive health and are added to a variety of food products to take advantage of their prebiotic effects. This trend is likely to continue.
    This should sound awfully familiar to you, but I don't expect that it will cause you to back away from your "resistant starch is special" mantra. You have also presented zero evidence, providing only empty assertions, to support your claims that "we should seek out and eat" resistant starch. Here is one simple question for you: how much colonic fermentation is optimal for health? Any peer-reviewed evidence you can provide to support your claims would be greatly appreciated, although, truth be told, without the peer reviewed evidence your claims are for all intents and purposes worthless.

    You also have a very irritating tendency to construct straw man arguments, which essentially entails putting words in other people's mouths and then arguing with those words. Somewhere along the line you positioned yourself as the defender of a healthy gut biome. Well, bully for you, except that as far as I'm aware, nobody, and least of all me, is arguing against maintaining healthy gut microflora. Rather, I am arguing against your chosen weapon in this fight, resistant starch from potatoes.

    Lastly, although you may not appreciate this, on some level I actually look forward to the ad-hominem attacks, snide remarks about my "dissertations", and out of left-field non-sequiturs about "unicorns" because those are sure signs that you and others are having a tough time actually addressing the arguments in am making in a calm, deliberate, and logical fashion.

    -PK
    My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

  4. #94
    Dragonfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklopp View Post
    The fundamental problem, OTZI, is that you decided on your conclusion, that eating potatoes solely is a good thing, and then went out looking for data to support that. This is the very definition of confirmation bias. In your quest to justify that abomination of an all potato diet, you happened upon some Wikipedia comment regarding RS and retrogradation of starch in cold potatoes, and then made your comment about yet another reason to eat potatoes.

    I merely came along to point out how ridiculous that statement is. And it is ridiculous. My post that started this whole multi-page back and forth with you in this thread pointed out that the reason RS is in any sense "important for gut health" is solely due the fact that it is a carbohydrate that makes it through the digestive tract intact to the colon where it can be fermented. Other carbohydrates have this exact same property, and if you are really intent on colonic fermentation you can do much much better than some cold potatoes:



    This should sound awfully familiar to you, but I don't expect that it will cause you to back away from your "resistant starch is special" mantra. You have also presented zero evidence, providing only empty assertions, to support your claims that "we should seek out and eat" resistant starch. Here is one simple question for you: how much colonic fermentation is optimal for health? Any peer-reviewed evidence you can provide to support your claims would be greatly appreciated, although, truth be told, without the peer reviewed evidence your claims are for all intents and purposes worthless.

    You also have a very irritating tendency to construct straw man arguments, which essentially entails putting words in other people's mouths and then arguing with those words. Somewhere along the line you positioned yourself as the defender of a healthy gut biome. Well, bully for you, except that as far as I'm aware, nobody, and least of all me, is arguing against maintaining healthy gut microflora. Rather, I am arguing against your chosen weapon in this fight, resistant starch from potatoes.

    Lastly, although you may not appreciate this, on some level I actually look forward to the ad-hominem attacks, snide remarks about my "dissertations", and out of left-field non-sequiturs about "unicorns" because those are sure signs that you and others are having a tough time actually addressing the arguments in am making in a calm, deliberate, and logical fashion.

    -PK
    *applause*

  5. #95
    janie's Avatar
    janie is offline Senior Member
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    More applause

  6. #96
    otzi's Avatar
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    Inulins are important constituents of dietary fiber that are present in a wide variety of foodstuffs of plant origin that act as prebiotics, which enhance gut colonization by beneficial bacteria, principally the bifidobacteria. Inulins consist of linear and branched polymers of repeating fructosyl units that range between 2 and 60 units in length. These polysaccharides are resistant to the host metabolism in the upper digestive tract, but are fermented by bacteria in the colon. Diets in the developed world that often comprise highly processed foods contain lower than desirable levels of inulin and dietary fiber generally. Inulins added to foods help maintain the mucosal barrier in the gut and are claimed to reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease and cancer and maintain gut health particularly in infants and the elderly. In recent years, inulins have been increasingly recognized as important in digestive health and are added to a variety of food products to take advantage of their prebiotic effects. This trend is likely to continue.
    So, be sure to eat these:

    Plants that contain high concentrations of inulin include:

    Agave (Agave spp.)
    Banana
    Burdock (Arctium lappa)
    Camas (Camassia spp.)
    Chicory (Cichorium intybus)
    Coneflower (Echinacea spp.)
    Costus Saussurea lappa
    Dandelion (Taraxacum officinale)
    Elecampane (Inula helenium)
    Garlic (Allium sativum)
    Jerusalem artichoke (Helianthus tuberosus)
    Jicama (Pachyrhizus erosus)
    Leopard's-bane (Arnica montana)
    Mugwort (Artemisia vulgaris)
    Onion (Allium cepa)
    Wild yam (Dioscorea spp.)
    Yacón (Smallanthus sonchifolius spp.)
    from: Inulin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    But eat them with caution because: About 30–40% of people in Central Europe suffer from fructose malabsorption.[15] Since inulin is a fructan, excess dietary intake may lead to minor side effects, such as increased flatulence and loose stools in those with fructose malabsorption.[16] It is recommended that fructan intake for people with fructose malabsorption be kept to less than 0.5 grams/serving.[16

    As for me, I'll take taters!
    Last edited by otzi; 01-22-2013 at 06:48 PM.

  7. #97
    pklopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    So, be sure to eat these:

    But eat them with caution because: About 30–40% of people in Central Europe suffer from fructose malabsorption.[15] Since inulin is a fructan, excess dietary intake may lead to minor side effects, such as increased flatulence and loose stools in those with fructose malabsorption.[16] It is recommended that fructan intake for people with fructose malabsorption be kept to less than 0.5 grams/serving.[16]
    Point ... missed ... by a country mile.

    The danger in using Wikipedia as the source for the majority of your knowledge is that it is easy to follow your tracks ( I've highlighted the bits that are relevant, but you conveniently omitted ):

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fount of Otzi's Knowldege (Wikipedia)
    Inulin is indigestible by the human enzymes ptyalin and amylase, which are adapted to digest starch. As a result, inulin passes through much of the digestive system intact. It is only in the colon that bacteria metabolise inulin, with the release of significant quantities of carbon dioxide, hydrogen, and/or methane. Inulin-containing foods can be rather gassy, in particular, for those unaccustomed to inulin, and these foods should be consumed in moderation at first.

    Inulin is a soluble fiber, one of three types of dietary fiber including soluble, insoluble, and resistant starch. Soluble fiber dissolves in water to form a gelatinous material. Some soluble fibers may help lower blood cholesterol and glucose levels.

    Because normal digestion does not break inulin down into monosaccharides, it does not elevate blood sugar levels and may, therefore, be helpful in the management of diabetes. Inulin also stimulates the growth of bacteria in the gut.[10] Inulin passes through the stomach and duodenum undigested and is highly available to the gut bacterial flora. This makes it similar to resistant starches and other fermentable carbohydrates. This contrasts with proprietary probiotic formulations based on lactic acid bacteria (LAB) in which the bacteria have to survive very challenging conditions through the gastrointestinal tract before they are able to colonize the gut.

    Some traditional diets contain over 20 g per day of inulin or fructooligosaccharides. The diet of the prehistoric hunter-forager in the Chihuahuan Desert has been estimated to include 135 g per day of inulin-type fructans.[11] Many foods naturally high in inulin or fructooligosaccharides, such as chicory, garlic, and leek, have been seen as "stimulants of good health" for centuries.[12]

    Inulin is also used in medical tests to measure the total amount of extracellular volume and determine the function of the kidneys.[citation needed]

    Inulin is generally recognized as safe (GRAS) by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).[13]

    There is a single report of what is claimed to be an allergic reaction to inulin in the literature,[14] but dietary inulin is accompanied by small amounts of bacteria and fungal spores and so this case could represent a reaction to one of these contaminants.[citation needed]

    About 30–40% of people in Central Europe suffer from fructose malabsorption.[15] Since inulin is a fructan, excess dietary intake may lead to minor side effects, such as increased flatulence and loose stools in those with fructose malabsorption.[16] It is recommended that fructan intake for people with fructose malabsorption be kept to less than 0.5 grams/serving.[16]
    If you think about it, that last paragraph that you latched on to is a non-sequitur and actually should probably be removed from that article. It is irrelevant if you suffer from fructose malabsorption, because as the article itself says, "normal digestion does not break down inulin into monosaccharides", that is, fructose. The breakdown to fructose occurs in the colon as a substrate for fermentation ... something that you seem to like when it happens to glucose.

    Throughout the excerpt from Wikipedia that I more fully included above, you can see the many parallels that are being drawn between inulin and resistant starches. My favourite bit, though, would have to be "This makes [Inulin] similar to resistant starches and other fermentable carbohydrates." I can see why it is important for your argument to redact that bit ... can't have folks thinking that there is no magic in a cold potato.

    As for the horrors of regularly eating chicory, onions, leeks, garlic, and bananas as opposed to cold potatoes ... you have to be kidding, right?

    -PK

    P.S. I asked you one simple question, Otzi. I'm still waiting for your answer.
    My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

  8. #98
    otzi's Avatar
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKLOPP
    Strange British man who is very jealous of the success of on-line superstar, Otzi's, famed "Potato Diet". PKLOPP gained some poor reviews from his failed attempt at an all-potato diet that included tuna and eggs. He was summarily drummed out of the blogosphere and spends his days looking to discredit Otzi. See also: Poor Sod, Sad Man, and King Straw Man

  9. #99
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklopp View Post
    Here is one simple question for you: how much colonic fermentation is optimal for health? Any peer-reviewed evidence you can provide to support your claims would be greatly appreciated, although, truth be told, without the peer reviewed evidence your claims are for all intents and purposes worthless.

    Lastly, although you may not appreciate this, on some level I actually look forward to the ad-hominem attacks, snide remarks about my "dissertations", and out of left-field non-sequiturs about "unicorns" because those are sure signs that you and others are having a tough time actually addressing the arguments in am making in a calm, deliberate, and logical fashion.
    Quote Originally Posted by pklopp View Post
    Point ... missed ... by a country mile.
    P.S. I asked you one simple question, Otzi. I'm still waiting for your answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Otzi, you are embarrassing yourself.

  10. #100
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    Heh.

    Onions and garlic are always on my menu! Sometimes leeks.
    And even though I'm HFLC, I gotta have my plantains on occasion as treats.

    Cold potatoes.
    Uh... No.
    Bleh.

    Raw.
    Hell no.
    That is not food man... serious.
    My dog won't even eat that if it falls on the floor.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


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