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  1. #21
    quikky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraB View Post
    I have a form of thrombophilia (factor V Leiden) so have to limit foods with Vit K in them and can't supplement with it even though I take high dose Vit D.

    You should be able to get enough vit K in the food you eat and not have to supplement, IMO.

    Check out vit K content on foods at Foods highest in Vitamin K
    I am not sure if I do get enough of it. Of course, we don't exactly know what "enough" is, when it comes to vitamin K2, but nonetheless. It seems that the foods richest in K2 are not exactly everyday staples: natto and goose liver. The more common foods, like cheese, butter, and eggs, don't have nearly as much. Unless you really make it a priority to consume these foods on a daily basis, and in large enough quantities, it's hard to imagine you'd be getting a lot of K2.

    I decided to order Carlson K2 supplements in 5mg pills. I think I will try taking one daily for maybe a week, and then switch to taking maybe 1-2 pills a week. I figured if I am deficient, taking more of it initially might help me notice any effects, and then a lower dose to be used for maintenance.

    Edit: I believe the table you mentioned is specifying the vitamin K1 content of the foods, which is not the same as K2. K1 can be converted to K2 by the body, but in much more limited quantities.
    Last edited by quikky; 01-16-2013 at 09:53 AM.

  2. #22
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    This is the only brand I will buy:

    Country Life Vitamin D3 -- 5000 IU - 200 Softgels - Vitacost

    Other Ingredients: Medium chain triglycerides, [gelatin, glycerin, purified water (capsule shell)]

    It's packed in MCT's. That's it. No soybean oil, which most fat soluble vitamins are packed in. Also, 200 5000IU softgels for $7.99? This is a no-brainer.

    However, 5,000IU's is a ton of isolated vitamins. I wouldn't take it more than 1-2 times a week. There's something to be said about taking large amounts of a refined, isolated fat-soluble vitamin...it just screams "toxicity" to me. If you take it, take it in the AM (not before bed, you make vitamin D during the day, not during the night!), take it less in the winter than the summer, etc. Be smart with it, just don't pop pills.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    This is the only brand I will buy:

    Country Life Vitamin D3 -- 5000 IU - 200 Softgels - Vitacost

    Other Ingredients: Medium chain triglycerides, [gelatin, glycerin, purified water (capsule shell)]

    It's packed in MCT's. That's it. No soybean oil, which most fat soluble vitamins are packed in. Also, 200 5000IU softgels for $7.99? This is a no-brainer.

    However, 5,000IU's is a ton of isolated vitamins. I wouldn't take it more than 1-2 times a week. There's something to be said about taking large amounts of a refined, isolated fat-soluble vitamin...it just screams "toxicity" to me. If you take it, take it in the AM (not before bed, you make vitamin D during the day, not during the night!), take it less in the winter than the summer, etc. Be smart with it, just don't pop pills.
    I am not sure why there would be concerns of toxicity, unless you take a ton daily at once. We're supposed to make what, like 10,000 IUs of D3 after 20 minutes of direct sunlight? Seems hard to imagine a couple pills equaling that, or less, would give you toxicity. Certainly, I've never heard of anyone experiencing this. Do you have any literature suggesting this might be happening with people who take D3 orally?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    I am not sure why there would be concerns of toxicity, unless you take a ton daily at once. We're supposed to make what, like 10,000 IUs of D3 after 20 minutes of direct sunlight?
    There is a huge difference between vitamin D synthesized naturally from sunlight by your body and absorbing it into the intestine. I'm very wary of consuming vitamin D and having it absorbed through my intestines. That is not natural as very few foods naturally contain vitamin D. We're supposed to manufacture it, not eat it, and I have severe doubts about the health benefits of longterm supplementation.

    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    Seems hard to imagine a couple pills equaling that, or less, would give you toxicity. Certainly, I've never heard of anyone experiencing this. Do you have any literature suggesting this might be happening with people who take D3 orally?

    Taking too much vitamin D can cause several side effects. However, scientists don't all agree on how much is too much. The National Institutes of Health has set the maximum tolerable upper limit at 1,000 IU daily for infants 0 - 6 months, 1,500 IU daily for infants 6 months to one year, 2,500 IU daily for children 1 - 3 years, 3,000 IU daily for children 4 - 8 years, and 4,000 IU daily for anyone over 9. Ask your doctor to determine the right dose for you or your child.

    Side effects may include:

    Being very thirsty
    Metal taste in mouth
    Poor appetite
    Weight loss
    Bone pain
    Tiredness
    Sore eyes
    Itchy skin
    Vomiting
    Diarrhea
    Constipation
    A frequent need to urinate
    Muscle problems
    Vitamin D

    You can't overdose on vitamin D through sunlight absorption, but you can through supplementation. The question is how much is too much? Vitamin D supplementation is a new craze, similar to fish oil supplementation. In the short term, it seems to have benefits. What will happen 20 years down the road? Considering that we're supplementing with a fat soluble vitamin that builds up over years and years, what may seem beneficial at all could become toxic after years. After all, 90+% of us will not respond to grain toxicity right away. But what happens in 30+ years of regular consumption? It's a slow build, and I'm wary of supplementing isolated chemicals. It tends to throw your system out of balance.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    There is a huge difference between vitamin D synthesized naturally from sunlight by your body and absorbing it into the intestine. I'm very wary of consuming vitamin D and having it absorbed through my intestines. That is not natural as very few foods naturally contain vitamin D. We're supposed to manufacture it, not eat it, and I have severe doubts about the health benefits of longterm supplementation.





    Vitamin D

    You can't overdose on vitamin D through sunlight absorption, but you can through supplementation. The question is how much is too much? Vitamin D supplementation is a new craze, similar to fish oil supplementation. In the short term, it seems to have benefits. What will happen 20 years down the road? Considering that we're supplementing with a fat soluble vitamin that builds up over years and years, what may seem beneficial at all could become toxic after years. After all, 90+% of us will not respond to grain toxicity right away. But what happens in 30+ years of regular consumption? It's a slow build, and I'm wary of supplementing isolated chemicals. It tends to throw your system out of balance.
    I am not sure where they are getting these numbers from, saying 4,000 IUs is the upper limit before toxicity. According to the Vitamin Council:

    Published cases of toxicity, for which serum levels and dose are known, all involve intake of ≥ 40000 IU (1000 mcg) per day. 1 Two different cases involved intake of over 2,000,000 IU per day - both men survived.

    ...

    It is fairly difficult to become toxic using vitamin D3. If you think you may be toxic because you are having an adverse reaction to vitamin D but you have not been using excessive amounts like those described above, your symptoms could be due to reasons other than toxicity.
    Link

    Also, you can (and should) measure your levels. Your vitamin D level won't just build and build without your 25(OH)D blood levels going up. So if they are getting high, you can always cut back.

    The question is, long-term, is it better to take the risk of adverse effects from vitamin D supplementation, which have not been shown using regular dosing, or, is the risk of low vitamin D levels worse, which is known to be linked with a multitude of serious problems, including cancer. Obviously, the best approach is to just get enough sunlight exposure, but for many that's not an option.

    Regarding intestinal absorption, I am not sure what the problem there is. There could be, but I have not seen anything saying that's an issue. It still increases 25(OH)D levels, and it still gets to the liver, so a good chunk of the mechanism is still the same. We put a lot of stuff through our intestines, I would have to see some literature to support the claim that ingesting something the body can produce on its own is harmful.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    There is a huge difference between vitamin D synthesized naturally from sunlight by your body and absorbing it into the intestine. I'm very wary of consuming vitamin D and having it absorbed through my intestines. That is not natural as very few foods naturally contain vitamin D. We're supposed to manufacture it, not eat it, and I have severe doubts about the health benefits of longterm supplementation.





    Vitamin D

    You can't overdose on vitamin D through sunlight absorption, but you can through supplementation. The question is how much is too much? Vitamin D supplementation is a new craze, similar to fish oil supplementation. In the short term, it seems to have benefits. What will happen 20 years down the road? Considering that we're supplementing with a fat soluble vitamin that builds up over years and years, what may seem beneficial at all could become toxic after years. After all, 90+% of us will not respond to grain toxicity right away. But what happens in 30+ years of regular consumption? It's a slow build, and I'm wary of supplementing isolated chemicals. It tends to throw your system out of balance.
    Those side effects require dosages of 50,000 IU or more for an extended period of time. Most people are deficient in vitamin d, so, high dosages are required for a few months in order to boost your levels to 40 ng/mL. As always though, get a lab test. Most people supplement high dosages of vitamin d3 even longer and don't realize they're throwing other fat soluble vitamin levels out of whack by doing so.
    nihil

  7. #27
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    The actual problem is that most people are not just deficient in vitamin D....they are also deficient in A and K2. With sufficient A and K your going to utilize your D more efficiently AND mitigate any possible issues with toxicity from any of them.

    So eat some liver and grass fed aged cheese and worry less about it.

    Some A/D info here:

    http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/cm...mune-diseases/

    Or you could just supplement FCLO with HVBO throught the winter.....this would get you all three fat solubles in what is about as close as you can come to a whole traditional food source.....well unless your avoiding da evils of O3 (for the Peat fans )
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 01-16-2013 at 05:56 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    The actual problem is that most people are not just deficient in vitamin D....they are also deficient in A and K2. With sufficient A and K your going to utilize your D more efficiently AND mitigate any possible issues with toxicity from any of them.
    Indeed. Everything is synergistically connected.
    nihil

  9. #29
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    Like Neckhammer said, everything in nature works in synergy. When we start taking isolated vitamins (which don't exist in nature), we exacerbate or create deficiencies because certain vitamins and minerals deplete others. They have to be in balance. Vitamin D is one of the scarier ones to me because Vitamin D is not typically ingested orally - it is made by your body when in contact with sunlight.

    These are all short term studies. Vitamin D supplementation is a relatively new fad. Let's see what happens 30 years from now to the people that supplement every day. 50,000 IU may be the threshold for toxicity...in what? A week? Short term megadosing? The issue is over decades. Similar to grain and vegetable oil, the toxicity becomes an issue after years or decades because the toxins build up in your tissue until they become a problem. No one is going to develop a disease eating a bowl of oatmeal 3 times a day for a week. But do it for 20 years and see what happens. The same thing may hold true for these isolated fat soluble vitamins.

    If you want to be a guinea pig for a new supplement, be my guest. I will take the cautious approach and get my digestible vitamins and minerals through a nutrient-dense, low-toxin diet and get my Vitamin D from the sun.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 01-16-2013 at 07:40 PM.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    Doesn't the Costco stuff have soybean oil in it? I was only considering brands that use olive oil, or fish oil.
    These are tablets, not a gelcap - no soybean oil; also no gluten, yeast, lactose, artificial colour or flavour or aspartame.

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