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Thread: 2nd day off the insane caffeine addiction!!! page 2

  1. #11
    Drumroll's Avatar
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    I think caffeine is an individual thing. There are those that say that caffeine is evil for everyone and should immediately be cut, but I've come to believe that it's all about how you respond to it. If it gives you insomnia or bad jitters, or you can't concentrate on your work as a result, then yeah, you should probably cut it. Not a bad idea!

    On the other hand, if you sleep well, don't seem to get overly jittery, feel energized from it rather than agitated, then you can probably keep it without issue. Sometimes, all it takes to solve the issue is cutting back. Four cups of coffee or tea doing you in? Try one or two cups for a while and see if you don't feel better.

    Some people do horrible on caffeine, other people do extremely well. It all depends. It's one of those things that can actually be extremely GOOD for some people, and can also be the worst thing EVER for others. Also, the key is to respect that it IS a drug and not abuse it.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cantat View Post
    Caffeine is a vasoconstrictor, so caffeine withdrawal headaches are actually caused by the blood vessels dilating back to normal. I also couldn't bear the headaches; were I to try to kick caffeine, I would probably wean myself off with smaller and smaller portions of caffeine pills. Otherwise, those headaches are absolutely horrible. I don't get migraines, but those are the worst headaches I've ever had.
    Caffeine's Vascular Mechanisms of Action

    Caffeine is metabolized into more than 25 metabolites in humans, mainly Paraxanthine, Theobromine, and Theophylline [12] Caffeine metabolism yields paraxanthine as a final product, which represents 72 to 80% of caffeine metabolism. There are five main metabolic pathways which contribute to caffeine metabolism in adults [13, 14]. The first three consist of demethylization of N-3 to form Paraxanthine, N-1 to form Theophylline (vasodilator, increased cerebral and muscular blood flow), and N-7 to form Theophylline (vascular, bronchiole, muscular, and respiratory relaxant). The hepatic cytochrome P-450 (CYP) isoenzyme metabolizes most of the caffeine (95%) by three demethylizations which on average give an in vivo metabolism percentage of 85% paraxanthine, 10% theobromine, and 5% theophylline [15]. The fourth pathway results in the formation of uracil metabolites, and the fifth consists of renal elimination of the remaining percentage of caffeine that was not able to be degraded in the process. The large interindividual differences observed in plasmatic concentration of caffeine following the administration of an equal dose are mainly due to variations in metabolism. These variations depend on four factors: genetic polymorphisms, metabolic induction and inhibition of cytochrome P-450, individual (weight, sex), and the presence of hepatic diseases [14] Caffeine is absorbed rapidly and completely from the intestinal tract, making it 100% bioavailable. The time in which maximum plasmatic concentration is obtained (Tmax) is 30–45 minutes [11, 14, 16, 17] fasting and is delayed with food ingestion; it has an average metabolic half life in humans of 2.5 to 4.5 hours [18]

    Caffeine, by acting on the VSMC, generates a minimal initial contraction and then a significant vasodilator effect. There are various mechanisms that explain these effects.

    Caffeine, by competitively blocking the adenosine receptors, increases its plasmatic concentration [64] which increases its systemic effects. At a systemic level, adenosine stimulates the chemoreceptor distributed throughout the circulation, causing a generalized increase in sympathetic tone, with an increase in circulating catecholamines, peripheral vascular resistance, and renin secretion [44, 65]. Several studies have documented an increase in systolic arterial pressure of 6 to 7.5 mmHg and 2.6 to 4 mmHg in diastolic pressure 60 minutes after the administration of 300 mg of caffeine (equivalent to drinking a triple espresso) [18, 43]. In spite of this “indirect” vasoconstrictor effect produced by caffeine, it is important to point out that the chronic consumption of caffeine creates a tolerance to its adenosine receptor-dependent effects. Chronic blocking of the adenosine receptors, inducing “upregulation” (an increase in the number and sensitivity) of the receptors has been described with a low-moderate caffeine consumption (approximately two cups of coffee for more than 5 days) [66].
    Caffeine is a vasodilator

    There is no clear conclusion that migraines can be caused by caffeine. Adenosine has opposite effects depending on its site of action; centrally, in the brain and spinal cord, adenosine acts as an analgesic, but peripherally it can cause pain. Adenosine dilates blood vessels in the head and neck. The concentration of adenosine in the head and neck increases approximately 68% above normal concentrations during migraine episodes, causing vasodilation and pain [73].The nervous system compensates the interference of caffeine by releasing more adenosine, increasing the number of adenosine receptors in the neuron surface, increasing the affinity of these receptors and decreasing the rate at which adenosine molecules are removed. All these changes tend to increase the activation of adenosine receptors, to compensate the receptors occupied by caffeine.Caffeine is also a common ingredient in many medications used for treating migraines, due to the fact that it makes analgesics work more efficiently, causes a faster absorption, and allows for a reduced dosage which decreases possible side effects of certain analgesics.
    Also, as caffeine inhibits serotonin(which aggravates migraines) it's particularly effective at protecting against them.

    Caffeine: A vitamin-like nutrient, or adaptogen. Questions about tea and coffee, cancer and other degenerative diseases, and the hormones.

    Sick of this wrongful mainstream sensationalist smear campaign against one of the best health substances around.
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  3. #13
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    Derp, I read an interesting study once that I might have to see if I can find again that gave conflicting evidence for caffeine's effect on the vascular system.

    On the one hand, they said it was a vasoconstrictor in the brain as scans of the brain after subjects had injected coffee or tea showed extreme restriction of the veins and arteries there. Yet, at the same time, in areas lower (everywhere else), the veins got wider and seemed to dilate as a result of the caffeine intake. They post outlasted that the headaches that some people feel from intake of caffeine could be related to the fact that once the caffeine wears off, the vessels and arteries in the brain dialogue and combined with the extra dilation of the rest of the body's vascular system caused a massive rush of blood to the brain for a short period that causes a slight increase in cranial pressure for a short period.

    I'm not totally straight on the science of that but it makes sense if it's true.

  4. #14
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    It's in there. It's an indirect cerebral vasoconstriction by antagonizing adenosine receptors. There was something of note further down there too.

    In spite of this “indirect” vasoconstrictor effect produced by caffeine, it is important to point out that the chronic consumption of caffeine creates a tolerance to its adenosine receptor-dependent effects. Chronic blocking of the adenosine receptors, inducing “upregulation” (an increase in the number and sensitivity) of the receptors has been described with a low-moderate caffeine consumption (approximately two cups of coffee for more than 5 days)
    JCI - Chronic caffeine ingestion sensitizes the A1 adenosine receptor-adenylate cyclase system in rat cerebral cortex.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post

    Sick of this wrongful mainstream sensationalist smear campaign against one of the best health substances around.
    Good lord, chill out. I wasn't waging a smear campaign; I don't even have strong feelings about caffeine one way or the other - except that, when I temporarily cut it out, I get the worst headaches I've ever had, without fail. It's not a coincidence. Health benefits or no, headaches are hella lame!
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cantat View Post
    Good lord, chill out. I wasn't waging a smear campaign; I don't even have strong feelings about caffeine one way or the other - except that, when I temporarily cut it out, I get the worst headaches I've ever had, without fail. It's not a coincidence. Health benefits or no, headaches are hella lame!
    Derpy drinks 30 cups of coffee a day plus Coke. (by his own account) Is it any wonder he is a little touchy on the subject?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    Sick of this wrongful mainstream sensationalist smear campaign against one of the best health substances around.
    Why are you so opposed to the idea that caffeine might have some bad side affects? Nobody here is demonizing caffeine based on dogma.

    There is enough anecdotal evidence to support the fact that too much caffeine isn't a good thing, and I'm sure you could find studies to support this. That's probably why most of the people on this thread said they wanted to cut back. They don't want to necessarily cut it out completely.

    Heck, this is common knowledge for most regular people.

    Here's a simpler way to look at it, of course that is if you believe for what ever reason caffeine might be good for you. There is such thing as too much of a good thing.

    Don't believe me? Try taking 1000 mg of caffeine per day every day for 3 months, then come back and tell me how you feel. I can guarantee you'll have trouble sleeping, will be mad a lot for no reason, won't be as happy as normal, and you'll be stressed and anxious all the time.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Congrats to the OP for kicking a self destructive habit to the curb.
    Thanks. I appreciate it.

    I'm on day 3 now and only had one diet soda. So I think I'm doing pretty good. I'm drinking a lot of water now.

  9. #19
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    I think coffee is amazing, and people who have no problem with it ought to enjoy it.

    Every time I drink it, I go blind in my right eye. You'd quit drinking it, too.


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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    Every time I drink it, I go blind in my right eye. You'd quit drinking it, too.
    It triggers seizures for me. Totally not worth it.

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