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  1. #1
    Tish's Avatar
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    My friend thinks we're slowly killing ourselves.

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    She's really against low-carb diets because she thinks (with good reason) that carbs essential, and therefore I'm depriving my body, and replacing it with unhealthy fats that will lead to high cholesterol and heart disease. She's even started bringing me research to back her up. And while I truly appreciate her looking out for me, I'm mostly just annoyed. Now it seems everyoneeee is very interested in what I eat (and not in a very positive way, either.)

    Anyway, she wanted me to bring her research that proves that a primal diet is somehow better than a convential one. But here's the catch: she doesn't want anything that came from Mark (sorry!) or Atkins (no problem there.) She just wants true, unbiased sources that will disprove everything she's been taught to believe. Not that Mark is biased by any means, she's just a firm believer this all a gimmick.

    And this is where you guys come in If you guys have any really neat, helping articles that I could show her, would you mind sending me the link? I would truly, truly appreciate it!


  2. #2
    Beef Cake's Avatar
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    42. Eaton SB, Konner MJ, Cordain L. Diet-dependent acid load, Paleolithic nutrition, and evolutionary health promotion. Am J Clin Nutr 2010;91:295–7.

    41. Eaton SB, Cordain L, Sparling PB. Evolution, body composition, insulin receptor competition, and insulin resistance. Prev Med. 2009;49:283-85.

    40. Ramsden CE, Faurot KR, Carrera-Bastos, P, Sperling LS, de Lorgeril M, Cordain L. Dietary fat quality and coronary heart disease prevention: a unified theory based on evolutionary, historical, global and modern perspectives. Curr Treat Options Cardiovasc Med; 2009;11:289-301.

    39. Treloar V, Logan Ac, Danby FW, Cordain L, Mann NJ. Comment on acne and glycemic index. J Am Acad Dermatol. 2008 Jan; 58(1): 175-7.

    38. Eaton SB, Cordain L, Sebastian A. The Ancestral Biomedical Environment In: Endothelial Biomedicine. W.C. Aird (Ed), Cambridge University Press, 2007, pp. 129-134.

    37. Cordain L. Dietary implications for the development of acne: a shifting paradigm. In: U.S. Dermatology Review II 2006, (Ed.,Bedlow, J). Touch Briefings Publications, London , 2006.

    36.Cordain L., Hickey MS. Ultraviolet radiation represents an evolutionary selective pressure for the south-to-north gradient of the MTHFR 677TT genotype. Am J Clin Nutr 2006;84:1243.

    35.Cordain L. Implications of Plio-Pleistocene Hominin Diets for Modern Humans. In: Early Hominin Diets: The Known, the Unknown, and the Unknowable. Ungar, P (Ed.), Oxford University Press, Oxford, 2006, pp 363-83

    34.O'Keefe JH Jr, Cordain L, Jones PG, Abuissa H. Coronary artery disease prognosis and C-reactive protein levels improve in proportion to percent lowering of low-density lipoprotein. Am J Cardiol. 2006 Jul 1;98(1):135-9.
    33. Cordain L. Saturated fat consumption in ancestral human diets: implications for contemporary intakes. In: Phytochemicals, Nutrient-Gene Interactions, Meskin MS, Bidlack WR, Randolph RK (Eds.), CRC Press (Taylor & Francis Group), 2006, pp. 115-126.

    32. Abuissa H, O’Keefe JH, Cordain, L. Realigning our 21st century diet and lifestyle with our hunter-gatherer genetic identity. Directions Psych 2005;25: SR1-SR10.
    31. Cordain, L. Implications for the role of diet in acne. Semin Cutan Med Surg 2005;24:84-91.
    30. Hoyt G, Hickey MS, Cordain L. Dissociation of the glycaemic and insulinaemic responses to whole and skimmed milk. Br J Nutr 2005;93:175-177.
    29. Loren Cordain, S. Boyd Eaton, Anthony Sebastian, Neil Mann, Staffan Lindeberg, Bruce A. Watkins, James H. O’Keefe, Janette Brand Miller. Origins and evolution of the western diet: Health implications for the 21st century. Am J Clin Nutr 2005;81:341-54.
    29a. This material includes comments about the article above and a reply by Dr. Cordain and his colleagues. Cordain L, Eaton SB, Sebastian A, Mann N, Lindeberg S, Watkins BA, O'Keefe JH, Brand-Miller J. Reply to SC Cunnane. Am J Clin Nutr 2005;82:483-84.
    28. O'Keefe JH, Cordain L, Harris, WH, Moe RM, Vogel R. Optimal low-density lipoprotein is 50 to 70 mg/dl. Lower is better and physiologically normal. J Am Coll Cardiol 2004;43: 2142-6.
    27. Lindeberg S, Cordain L, Rastam L, Ahren B. Serum uric acid in traditional Pacific Islanders and in Swedes. J Intern Med. 2004 Mar;255(3):373-8.
    26. O'Keefe JH Jr, Cordain L. Cardiovascular disease resulting from a diet and lifestyle at odds with our Paleolithic genome: how to become a 21st-century hunter-gatherer. Mayo Clin Proc 2004 Jan;79(1):101-8.
    26a. This "article" is a response written by Dr. Cordain to a letter about the article above, Cardiovascular disease resulting from a diet and lifestyle at odds with our Paleolithic genome: how to become a 21st-century hunter-gatherer. Please click on the item below for a complete viewing of the material.
    25. Lindeberg S, Cordain L, and Eaton SB. Biological and clinical potential of a Paleolithic diet. J Nutri Environ Med 2003; 13(3):149-160.
    24. Cordain L, Eades MR, Eades MD. Hyperinsulinemic diseases of civilization: more than just syndrome X. Comp Biochem Physiol Part A 2003;136:95-112.
    23. Lindeberg S, Ahren B, Nilsson A, Cordain L, Nilsson-Ehle P, Vessby B. Determinants of serum triglycerides and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol in traditional Trobriand Islanders: the Kitava Study. Scand J Clin Lab Invest 2003; 63: 175-180.
    22. Cordain L, Lindeberg S, Hurtado M, Hill K, Eaton SB, Brand-Miller J. Acne vulgaris: A disease of western civilization. Arch Dermatol 2002; 138:1584-90.

    22a. This "article" includes a series of letters written in response to the publication of the article above, Acne vulgaris: A disease of western civilization, and Dr. Cordain's response. Please click on all three items below for a complete viewing of all the material.
    21. Cordain L, Eaton SB, Brand Miller J, Mann N, Hill K. The paradoxical nature of hunter-gatherer diets: Meat based, yet non-atherogenic. Eur J Clin Nutr 2002; 56 (suppl 1):S42-S52.
    20. Cordain L, Watkins BA, Florant GL, Kehler M, Rogers L, Li Y. Fatty acid analysis of wild ruminant tissues: Evolutionary implications for reducing diet-related chronic disease. Eur J Clin Nutr, 2002; 56:181-191.
    19. Cordain L, Eaton SB, Brand Miller J, Lindeberg S, Jensen C. An evolutionary analysis of the etiology and pathogenesis of juvenile-onset myopia. Acta Ophthalmologica Scandinavica, 2002; 80:125-135.
    18. Eaton SB, Strassman BI, Nesse RM, Neel JV, Ewald PW, Williams GC, Weder AB, Eaton SB 3rd, Lindeberg S, Konner MJ, Mysterud I, Cordain L. Evolutionary health promotion. Prev Med 2002; 34:109-118.
    17. Eaton SB, Cordain L. Evolutionary Health Promotion. A consideration of common counter-arguments. Prev Med 2002; 34:119-123.
    16. Cordain L. The nutritional characteristics of a contemporary diet based upon Paleolithic food groups. J Am Nutraceut Assoc 2002; 5:15-24.
    15. Cordain L, Brand Miller J, Eaton SB, Mann N. Reply to ARP Walker. Am J Clin Nutr 2001; 73:354-55.
    14. Cordain L. Syndrome X: Just the tip of the hyperinsulinemia iceberg. Medikament 2001; 6:46-51.
    13. Cordain L, Watkins BA, Mann NJ. Fatty acid composition and energy density of foods available to African hominids: evolutionary implications for human brain development. World Rev Nutr Diet 2001, 90:144-161.
    12. Eaton SB, Cordain L, Eaton SB. An evolutionary foundation for health promotion. World Rev Nutr Diet 2001; 90:5-12.
    11. Cordain L, Brand Miller J, Eaton SB, Mann N, Holt SHA, Speth JD. Plant to animal subsistence ratios and macronutrient energy estimations in world wide hunter-gatherer diets. Am J Clin Nutr 2000, 71:682-92.
    10. Cordain L, Toohey L, Smith MJ, Hickey MS. Modulation of immune function by dietary lectins in rheumatoid arthritis. Brit J Nutr 2000, 83:207-217.
    9. Cordain, L., Brand Miller, J., Eaton, S.B. & Mann, N. Hunter-gatherer diets – a shore based perspective (letter). Am J Clin Nutrition 2000; 72:1585-86.
    8. Cordain, L., Brand Miller, J., Eaton, S.B. & Mann, N. (2000). Macronutrient estimations in hunter-gatherer diets (letter). Am J Clin Nutr 2000; 72:1589-90.
    7. Cordain L. Cereal grains: humanity’s double edged sword. World Rev Nutr Diet 1999; 84:19-73.
    6. Cordain L, Miller J, Mann N. Scant evidence of periodic starvation among hunter-gatherers. Diabetologia 1999; 42:383-84.
    5. Cordain L. Atherogenic potential of peanut oil-based monounsaturated fatty acids diets. Lipids 1998; 33:229-30.
    4. Eaton SB, Eaton SB, Cordain L, Sinclair A, Mann N. Dietary intake of long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids during the Paleolithic. World Rev Nutr Diet 1998; 83:12-23.
    3. Cordain, L., Gotshall, R.W. and Eaton, S.B. Physical activity, energy expenditure and fitness: an evolutionary perspective. International Journal of Sports Medicine 1998; 19:328-335.
    2. Cordain, L., Gotshall, R.W., Eaton, S.B. Evolutionary aspects of exercise. World Rev Nutr Diet 1997; 81:49-60.
    1. Eaton, S.B., Cordain, L. Old genes, new fuels: Nutritional changes since agriculture. World Rev Nutr Diet 1997; 81:26-37.

    http://www.thepaleodiet.com/published_research/

  3. #3
    Sharonll's Avatar
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    Do you really want to get into this sort of back and forth, you show me yours and I'll show you mine sort of pissing contest? Not in a million years would I be drawn into this kind of situation. Sorry, but I think it's a waste of your time with this kind of person.

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    Griff's Avatar
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    Give her Gary Taubes' "Good Calories, Bad Calories." Tons of scientific studies in there. And hand her "Protein Power" by the Drs Eades, too. And "The Great Cholesterol Con" by Dr. Malcolm Kendrick and the identically-titled book by Anthony Colpo. And "Eat Fat, Lose Fat" by Dr. Mary Enig and Susan Fallon.

    You might also point her at this lecture that Taubes gave to a group of physicians: http://www.dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

    And as far as personal proof - wait three or four months and then have some bloodwork done.
    Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

    Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


    Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

    My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

  5. #5
    jo's Avatar
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    Since she is insisting on unbiased true sources, I assume hers are too, and not just opinion pieces from CW experts. I often visit the Active Low Carber forum where they unpick biased CW research and it is very interesting. What evidence has she shown you? There is a summary of research on low carb diets on wikipedia with links.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical...ohydrate_diets They are not necessarily primal of course but they are worth a read. Unfortunately in some of them, even where the evidence demonstrates the low carb diet's effectiveness, the scientists still can't contemplate it as a healthy diet.

    I would be a bit annoyed at a friend of mine behaving like that. OK, it might be that she cares about your health, but at the end of the day a good friend will support you not impose her own health beliefs on you.

  6. #6
    Beef Cake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharonll View Post
    Do you really want to get into this sort of back and forth, you show me yours and I'll show you mine sort of pissing contest? Not in a million years would I be drawn into this kind of situation. Sorry, but I think it's a waste of your time with this kind of person.
    Actually, probably the best advice. It is a waste of good energy to constantly have to combat and justify yourself to others. Do your own research and feel comfortable with your decisions. If you focus your positive energy on becoming the best you, then your friend may see your results and change her mind...or she may get pissed that you are extremely healthy and look great even though you bucked what she considers healthy.

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    Suki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tish View Post
    She's really against low-carb diets because she thinks (with good reason) that carbs essential, and therefore I'm depriving my body, and replacing it with unhealthy fats that will lead to high cholesterol and heart disease. She's even started bringing me research to back her up. And while I truly appreciate her looking out for me, I'm mostly just annoyed. Now it seems everyoneeee is very interested in what I eat (and not in a very positive way, either.)

    Anyway, she wanted me to bring her research that proves that a primal diet is somehow better than a convential one. But here's the catch: she doesn't want anything that came from Mark (sorry!) or Atkins (no problem there.) She just wants true, unbiased sources that will disprove everything she's been taught to believe. Not that Mark is biased by any means, she's just a firm believer this all a gimmick.

    And this is where you guys come in If you guys have any really neat, helping articles that I could show her, would you mind sending me the link? I would truly, truly appreciate it!

    Why are you doing this? What are the reasons you've decided this is a better option for you than a conventional diet? Seems that knowledge should inform your decision to change your diet rather than the other way around. Different courses for different horses, I guess. You should probably read Taubes, Keith, Cordain, Eades...

    As for your friend - lead by example.

  8. #8
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    The proof is in the pudding... (What a horrible expression, but very true.) If she can't believe it works after seeing your progress - and that of others on this site - there is no use trying to change her mind.

  9. #9
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    I have to agree that you'll probably never convince your friend no matter how much research you throw at her. Perhaps the best approach might be to gently agree that you're going to have to differ and prove it to her through whatever markers she considers 'proof'. Your blood lipids? Full blood profiles? And in the meantime you can become a serious expert on metabolism through Good Calories, Bad Calories and similar books. Then you can baffle her with science (I mean, does she know you can make blood sugar from both fat and protein?!)

    Good luck!

  10. #10
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    I concur with Griff. Give her Taubes.

    Then if she gets two pages in and balks, because after all, it's really firm reading, watch Fat Head with her. Okay, it's not exactly _impartial_, but neither, I assume, is what she's giving you.

    What is she giving you, by the way? I might try to look it up in Taubes and find out his opinion of it.

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