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  1. #1
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    Flu shots

    I didn't get a flu shot this year as I learned that unless you can get an individual dose vaccine (I tried but it wasn't available), you will be exposed to preservatives, including mercury. Since I'm older, my doc had even recommended a double dose now available for seniors. Well, I didn't do it and now am reading news stories saying that if you haven't gotten it, you'd better as it is going to be bad.

    What do yo think? Did you get a flu shot or do you think the vaccine carries more risk than benefit?

  2. #2
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    I believe all vaccines are not worth the risk.
    But I looked into this for a long time before deciding that. But that is the simple answer for our family.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_o View Post
    Vaccination has virtually eradicated a laundry list of ghastly infections, spared us unimaginable suffering and saved countless lives.
    Please direct me to the literature that guided your decision.

    Seriously. I'm fascinated as to what drives this mindset in the face of all logic, research, empirical evidence and common sense.
    Let me clear something up here.

    The 60% effective rate for vaccines does not mean what most people think it means.

    It *does not* mean you have a 60% less chance of getting the flu.

    Sample scenario

    100 people in each group.

    Control group (no vaccine) - 2 get flu, 98 do not get flu
    Treatment group (flu vaccine) - 1 get flu, 99 do not get flu

    What this means:

    1 person in each group will catch the flu regardless if they got the vaccine or not
    98 people in each group will not catch the flu regardless if they got the vaccine or not

    Which leads to ==> 99 people in both groups were not helped by the vaccine.

    The relative risk reduction (RRR) becomes (2-1)/2 = 50%.

    Note that the 50% rate in this example does not mean you have a 50% less chance of getting the flu by taking the flu shot.

    Measuring Effectiveness

    A better measurement of the effectiveness of an intervention is using Number needed to treat (NNT). Mark actually touched on it here.

    Basically, the lower the NNT, the more effective the intervention.

    In my view, anything with NNT > 20 is dubious in effectiveness, NNT > 30 becomes extremely dubious, NNT > 50 is pure fantasy.

    For medical interventions, there is an inverse relationship between effectiveness and hope. Whatever medical intervention you decided on, make sure it is closer to effective than hope.

    According to this Cochrane Collaboration meta-analysis Vaccines for preventing influenza... [Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI:

    For vaccines well matched against the flu in the environment, the NNT is 33 (33 people need to be treated to prevent 1 case of flu)

    For vaccines with poor matches against the flu in the environment, the NNT is 99 (99 people need to be treated to prevent 1 case of flu)

    Evidence vs Ideology

    In case anyone is under the impression everything in vaccine research is evidence based, here is an article from The Atlantic that will warm your heart. Does the Vaccine Matter? - Shannon Brownlee, and Jeanne Lenzer - The Atlantic. Researchers that present evidence counter to the pro-vaccine narrative get blacklisted and defunded. This is a lot like how researchers get blacklisted and defunded because they went against government backed narratives such as the "Dietary Guidelines" for their country.

    For the record, I am neither pro-vaccine or anti-vaccine. I am pro-effectve intervention.

    So Dave_o, I have to ask. Can you direct me to the literature which formulated your mindset?

  4. #4
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    As a medical professional, I do not get the yearly flu vaccine. Neither do half my coworkers.
    “Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” Rumi

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SophieScreams View Post
    As a medical professional, I do not get the yearly flu vaccine. Neither do half my coworkers.
    It's not required for you job? I work at a children's hospital, I'm not in patient -care ( I'm a computer programmer), and I don't even work in the hospital itself, I work at a nearby office building, we are required to get the flu shot. No shot = no job.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by abbyful View Post
    It's not required for you job? I work at a children's hospital, I'm not in patient -care ( I'm a computer programmer), and I don't even work in the hospital itself, I work at a nearby office building, we are required to get the flu shot. No shot = no job.
    That is really unfair.

  7. #7
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    OP: I believe you made a wise choice.

    10% of the workforce where I work were laid off sick today with flu.

    I have only caught flu once in my lifetime and have taken a flu vaccine once in my lifetime. It took about 100 x longer to get over the adverse affects of the vaccine than it did to recover from flu.
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

  8. #8
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    Vaccinations can cause hypothyroidism. Not only that, vaccines actually put you at more risk for illnesses, eg; seasonal flu shot doubles your risk for h1n1.

    Another example, Spanish flu was caused by vaccinations. The only ones who did not get Spanish flu were the ones who declined the vaccine.
    Make America Great Again

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    Spanish flu was caused by vaccinations. The only ones who did not get Spanish flu were the ones who declined the vaccine.
    Just how many people in the 1918-1920 Spanish Flu pandemic do you think were offered flu vaccine before its first use in the 1940ies? I think you'll find the only ones who did not get Spanish Flu were those who did not get Spanish Flu.
    Why use a sledge hammer to crack a nut when a steam roller is even more effective, and, is fun to drive.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel View Post
    Just how many people in the 1918-1920 Spanish Flu pandemic do you think were offered flu vaccine before its first use in the 1940ies? I think you'll find the only ones who did not get Spanish Flu were those who did not get Spanish Flu.
    http://www.whale.to/vaccine/sf1.html
    Make America Great Again

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