Minimalist living page 3

[Him]

In the last line I quoted, you put the OP and your friend in the same category. The only commonality between the two for which we have any evidence is the amount of stuff they had. From there, you assert that the OP is unhealthy and shouldn't be encouraged.

No. I made my not-so-snap judgment about the OP mostly from his introduction thread here on MDA where he described a pattern of binging (smoking a whole bunch of cigarettes, etc) followed by relatively extreme lifestyle changes. I interpreted his post in this thread as part of a larger pattern. I'm being a judgmental SOB because of that larger pattern, not because of some superficial comparison to my friend (who doesn't sound very similar at all). I'm certainly not using the absurd abuse of logic you are accusing me of.

This is the problematic comparison. You are free to continue to deny that you did this, of course, but I did quote your post above where the comparison was made.

It would be problematic, I agree, but it isn't my comparison. You drew a comparison. I simply asserted that both individuals were in the same class. That's our disconnect. You are claiming a thought process that I didn't follow and don't agree with, and attributing logical constructs to me that I did not and would not use.

It's like I said before, I'm perfectly happy to entertain the idea that I'm wrong, but I'm not wrong in the way you think.

[zoebird]

No. I made my not-so-snap judgment about the OP mostly from his introduction thread here on MDA where he described a pattern of binging (smoking a whole bunch of cigarettes, etc) followed by relatively extreme lifestyle changes. I interpreted his post in this thread as part of a larger pattern. I'm being a judgmental SOB because of that larger pattern, not because of some superficial comparison to my friend (who doesn't sound very similar at all). I'm certainly not using the absurd abuse of logic you are accusing me of.

First, I am only using the evidence of this thread, so cannot speak to the other. But, I can see how that evidence could be used. Incidentally, I don't think it creates a "judgmental SOB" to put things together and construct something reasonable.

Since you have evidence (outside of the thread) to put your friend and the OP in the same class, then I'm cool with that.

But, as I didn't have evidence (nor was reference made to it in your response), that is where my inference lead. With that evidence -- you are right in your logical process. Without that evidence, I am right in the logical process.

[YogaBare]

Oh, but that's not how the story ends.

He saved a ton of money by the time he hit 40. He actually paid off the condo at 13 years into a 30 year mortgage...wrote a check for the balance.

Then he took an early retirement from his (fortune 100 level) employer with a golden parachute to the tune of 2 years salary.

Then he sold his condo to the tune of almost $300K... at that point you can imagine how his bank account is looking....

Oh, in selling his condo he gave away the mattress. The last time I visited him at a home he could call his own he was renting a room with someone in an apartment ... his bedroom had a blanket on the floor, he had a laptop and some clothes, plus of course his car.

Five years later he now has no home of his own (he couch surfs), is still living within 100 miles of where he was born, has been trying to buy a new place to live but cannot get out of the bargain hunter mode... he keeps looking at REO/bank owned (scary) places but other people always out-bid him... oh, and no job... he's been living on savings, which he's admittedly good at doing but between the 2008 financial mess zeroing out interest rates and tanking investments he is down a LOT of money even before his poverty-level living expenses.

At some point in there he got serious enough about suicide that I actually called his doctor to explain that the whole gamut of, "concrete plans, location, access to method, etc." screening was met. Fortunately he hasn't actually killed himself, but he just doesn't seem happy or healthy.

His embarrassment at his lifestyle was such that he had no serious relationships. Lived alone, will probably die alone. No wife, no kids.

That's an unbelievably sad story

It sounds to me like he's on the autistic spectrum and never got diagnosed...

[Him]

First, I am only using the evidence of this thread, so cannot speak to the other. But, I can see how that evidence could be used. Incidentally, I don't think it creates a "judgmental SOB" to put things together and construct something reasonable.

Since you have evidence (outside of the thread) to put your friend and the OP in the same class, then I'm cool with that.

But, as I didn't have evidence (nor was reference made to it in your response), that is where my inference lead. With that evidence -- you are right in your logical process. Without that evidence, I am right in the logical process.

I'm sticking with judgmental SOB because nobody is as crazy as they seem on the internet. Which, when you think about it, is kinda disturbing in its own right. :-)

Your logical process was fine for trying to refute what I was saying, which is different than describing the logic of what I was saying.

[JoanieL]

To the OP. While I don't necessarily consider myself a minimalist, I'm not a junkie-consumerist either. Life is short. Some of it should be fun. I drive a 20+ year old car, but if I identified myself by my car, I'd probably drive something different. I don't have a cell phone, but when I do long road trips, I get a temporary one for safety. I don't have satellite tv anymore, but that started out as an experiment, and I surprised myself by being quite happy with the "tv" that I can get free online. Since almost all of my clothing is black, it really doesn't matter whether I have a lot or a little, but if I see a pair of jeans that I think rock my ass, I don't hesitate to buy them.

OTOH, after moving almost two years ago with what I could fit into a very small car, plus four boxes I had shipped to me, I'm currently fleshing out my kitchen. I miss some of the small things that make good food prep a little easier. I also have a luxurious bed that could never be classified as minimalist. Almost all my other furniture is thrift store finds, but that is because I enjoy the thrill of the hunt - if I didn't, I'd buy retail. I generally trim my own hair, but once a year, I spend a small fortune to have it done by one of the better stylists in the city.

So, for me, it's a moderation thing. I don't purchase to impress the "Joneses," but if I want something, and I can afford it, I buy it. I don't need 100 pairs of shoes, but 20 doesn't seem like a lot (I love boots). I don't spend a fortune on makeup, but I'm not going to skip it totally because I look like crap without it.

So, to me, moderation and minimalism are admirable. When it becomes deprivation, I think it's a waste of time. Whatever makes you happy should be what you do, no matter what anyone else thinks.

[sjmc]

No matter what level of minimalism anyone lands at, it's great to at least have that framework in your mind that keeps you critical of your own habits. My home (my parent's home) is full of crap, and I hate it. Lots of unnecessary big items, every drawer filled with random stuff. Store room full of broken things. My dad is now an Amazon junkie and my mom can't get rid of things. My grandma moved back in so they have also had to throw all her stuff (very nice stuff, mind you) in as well.

I guess I'm conflating minimalism with tidiness to an extent too, since you can certainly own lots of useless things but still have an orderly, uncluttered home. In any case, my family definitely underperforms in both respects and home is a very unsettling place to be due to this.