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Thread: Fruit not reintroducing well. page 2

  1. #11
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    I'd expect to be covered in boils if I ate that much of any dairy! The probiotic seems fine. It just seems odd to retune my body again, when it seemed to be running pretty well aside from my oddly aged appearance. Maybe I made the wrong call. Maybe I just needed more fat and a little less meat, and to maintain my apple-a-day and berries, etc. habit.
    Why? Dairy intolerance again is almost always a product of poor gut health. This is exactly why very low carbers tend to have every food sensitivity under the sun. Animal protein and fat are healthy - in appropriate quantities. We're not supposed to get 60% dietary calories from fat and 30% dietary calories from protein. We produce amylase in our saliva for a reason. We preferentially burn glucose over fatty acids for a reason. We evolved in areas where fruit and starch is plentiful and lean game meats are the norm. We didn't evolve in the arctic. when you ignore the most important macronutrient for your body - carbohydrate - your gut colonies literally die off and you run into all these intolerances because you can no longer digest food.

    Step #1: Start taking a probiotic with all your meals.
    Step #2: Start introducing small quantities of full fat fermented dairy - Greek yogurt or kefir ideally.
    Step #3: Start introducing small amounts of cheeses.

    Once you get past that part, your gut bacteria should be getting better. Supplement with soluble fiber - white potatoes, sweet potatoes, bananas, etc.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  2. #12
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    Me too. What was broke about your old diet that needed fixing?
    I was just looking haggard, even though I felt amazing for the most part (sleep issues!).

    I'm torn between this whole "gut-healing" line of thought and the more common-sense "don't eat what hurts you" line of thought. What if fruit only bloats me because of a gut imbalance?! I do look younger now - probably just the bloat. Maybe I should just accept looking old and go back to what worked for the past three years.

    I've always had a green apple a day (except for the random 0 carb week here and there), and some berries often. That's probably plenty, aside from free grapes at a party, etc. Lots to think about, and thanks for all your replies! More ideas welcome.


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  3. #13
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    We're keeping in mind that Choco is obsessed with carbs and thinks human evolution began in Africa, instead of culminating there.

    I ate the diet he recommends for three years and it didn't solve my problems. FWIW. It's a great diet for healthy people, though. I was deluded during those years that I was a pretty healthy person, not realizing the extent of my issues.

    Restoring health can be very, very complicated for those of us who haven't gotten a bit broken over the years. When you're a young healthy guy, it can seem there are simple solutions for everything, but for a lot of us, the truth is more like something like this: Maybe you were looking haggard b/c thyroid function is low, and many people are able to mask symptoms by having more carbs, but a better long-term solution is to fix the underlying problem, by something more than just carbs and/or thyroid meds (which may be necessary short- or long-term, but still don't *solve* the problem).

    Or maybe something like your sex steroids being out of balance, and you need more nutrients to help with that, but can't currently tolerate certain forms and/or amounts of carbs, and need to find a balance between improving the nutrient issue while living with the effects of sometimes going over the amount/type of carb you can tolerate.

    Or something entirely else. But it's very unlikely that your answer is going to be something as simple as "just increase/decrease X." That reality really bites, but it is usually true for most people with any kind of non-perfect health in this very health-broken modern age. What works to sustain great health is not often enough to regain it once lost. And bloating, looking haggard, strong cravings, etc., are all signs of a greater underlying problem that needs to be discovered and resolved.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    I was just looking haggard, even though I felt amazing for the most part (sleep issues!).

    I'm torn between this whole "gut-healing" line of thought and the more common-sense "don't eat what hurts you" line of thought. What if fruit only bloats me because of a gut imbalance?! I do look younger now - probably just the bloat. Maybe I should just accept looking old and go back to what worked for the past three years.

    I've always had a green apple a day (except for the random 0 carb week here and there), and some berries often. That's probably plenty, aside from free grapes at a party, etc. Lots to think about, and thanks for all your replies! More ideas welcome.
    You don't get enough sleep and you work the night shift and yet you look to your diet for the reason why you are looking "haggard"?

    Hey, Occam, can I borrow your razor?

    And, yes, bloat will make you look younger. It's why they do botox injections. The inflammation puffs up and flattens out the wrinkles.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    And, yes, bloat will make you look younger. It's why they do botox injections. The inflammation puffs up and flattens out the wrinkles.
    Haha....very good point on the botox too.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MamaGrok View Post
    We're keeping in mind that Choco is obsessed with carbs and thinks human evolution began in Africa, instead of culminating there.
    If people around here were afraid of fat, I'd be taking the exact opposite stance.

    What irritates me is a community of people that is supposed to be embracing an evolutionary diet, then ignores 1/3 of the food on Earth that we evolved on.

    This community as a whole thrives on obsession. We need to be counter-culture. We love shock and awe. I guess that's why this "extreme" lifestyle attracts us? So our friends can marvel as we eat bacon and put butter in our coffee so it's taboo and anti-conventional wisdom?

    People around here love to throw the Inuit up on a pedestal for their diet. However, they ignore that the Inuit are a recent culture, they STILL ate 15% of their daily calories from carbohydrate (which is more than the keto people around here) and the overwhelming majority of traditional societies eat more carbs than fat.

    People around here love to point out that we don't NEED carbohydrate to survive, but they leave out how we don't NEED saturated fat or cholesterol to survive, either. That's how vegetarians manage to limp by - their body will convert carbs into the fats and sterols they need to survive, just like our bodies will convert proteins into the glucose we need to survive. At the expense of our own health and longevity.

    People around here like to say the brain can run on ketones, but they fail to mention that ketones are only supplemental - your brain always runs on glucose, even in full-blown ketosis.

    I take issue with the hypocrisy. Eat all whole foods. Your body wants a little bit of everything - fat, protein and glucose. Start 33%f/33%p/33%c and adjust accordingly until you feel best.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 01-08-2013 at 12:37 PM.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    We're not supposed to get 60% dietary calories from fat .....
    Somebody please break this ground shaking revelation to my body...seeing hows after food is stored for a later date, and your not eating, self cannibalization for nutrients and energy comprises just about that amount (approx. 60%) from fat. Seems to me a perfectly good reason that your diet should be made up of ratios that approximate such.

    Hey looking at your ratios looks like paleo/zone. I think crossfitters started trying that several years back.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 01-08-2013 at 12:45 PM.

  8. #18
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    Really no care. My initial response was directed for Knifegills individual situation. It is quite irrelevant to turn a thread about his particular issues into a chance to preach from a soapbox about the community at large.

  9. #19
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    Exactly. I agree with most of what Choco posted above - for people who are healthy and looking where to start in paleo. That's not Knifegill's situation. I don't even claim that Knifegill needs to stop eating fruit. There is simply the reality that carbs out of sync with temperature, light cycles, etc., will very often worsen a situation of ill health. Ketosis is needed, for a time (that may range from short to long, depending on the illness), for many people with less-than-perfect health. Not all.

    There is no one preaching on this thread ketosis-for-life-for-everyone. Context.
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  10. #20
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    I don't know how long it would take, but adding in 3-5 pieces of fruit everyday over two weeks seems like too much to me. I started with one piece for a week or two, then two. Sometimes I go over that and get a sugar headache (from really sugar dense things like dates, mostly).

    I also find that the more fruit I eat, the less I can fast successfully. Depending on your activity levels, I would say most people don't need more than a few servings of fruit a day (and by that, I mean 3 reasonable sized pieces, like a banana, an apple, and an orange, not a whole melon). That's about how much I had when I was biking a few miles everyday during the summer and it felt great. I'm not active at all right now and too much fruit just makes me hungrier.
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