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  1. #1
    Warmbear's Avatar
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    Why do so many folks not Vaccinate their kids?

    Primal Fuel
    Heya, I have seen this a lot of late and I have to wonder why? Seems to me giving your kids protection from diseases is a good thing. My dad had polio as a kid and no way do I want to risk that with the kids.

    I have heard that vaccinations cause Autism, which everything I have read says is a load of bulldookey.

    My question is why would you not vaccinate your halflings?
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    I find this topic interesting and a bit infuriating as well. I think people who do not vaccinate their children are being irresponsible to the rest of society. Grrr.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warmbear View Post
    Heya, I have seen this a lot of late and I have to wonder why? Seems to me giving your kids protection from diseases is a good thing. My dad had polio as a kid and no way do I want to risk that with the kids.

    I have heard that vaccinations cause Autism, which everything I have read says is a load of bulldookey.

    My question is why would you not vaccinate your halflings?
    I have a child with regressive Autism. He was born seemingly fine. Baby book has entries like "My most social child" and "What a happy, healthy baby boy."

    About 1 week after his 6 month shots he stopped rolling from his back to his belly. Stuck like a turtle, and didn't relearn (with difficulty) until close to a year old. He also developed fairly significant reflux during this time.

    About a week after his 12 month shots he stopped learning new words. He was an early talker. At 10 months he used his first word appropriatetly: "off" when playing with a lamp switch. His language then turned into learning a new word but dropping the other word he had just learned.

    He then had his 15 month shots late and his 18 month shots early due to an illness and travel plans. Within 3 weeks he was 'gone'. We thought he had lost his hearing. We spent his second Christmas piling his presents around him without any response.

    Now, all of this is purely anecdotal, but either this disorder has an eerie pattern of developing at the same time vaccines are given or vaccines play a role. I believe the latter. We never got the horrible fevers and high pitched screaming that some report after the shots; just a sinister quiet removal of skills that doctors lovingly refer to as 'soft neurological signs'. I think some people have a genetic make-up or pre-existing exposure to chemicals/toxins that put them at risk of developing neurological problems from the ingredients in vaccines or that they have an inappropriate immune response. Families with a history of auto-immune disorders have a higher incidence of children on the spectrum.

    Some children seem to be born with Autism. More and more, we are seeing children like mine that are 'taken' later in their toddler years.

    Vaccinating is still a personal family decision. My husband is an MD and is forcing the issue to vaccinate my kids after 10 years of not doing so. It is causing a huge rift in my marriage. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But, in the meantime, my now almost 12 year old son on the spectrum has made tremendous strides and my older two are happy and healthy and have not contracted a single disease for which they were supposed to have been vaccinated. Luckily, I live in a state that allows a philosophical exemption from mandated shots. For me it is just as easy as signing a waiver.

    I don't know if it is actually true, but I believe the only incidence of polio in the US for years has been contracting it from the vaccine itself.

    My last rant: how in the hell can we expect someone with an immature immune system (infants) to have an appropriate immune response to a vaccine? Let's go back to the old vaccine schedule and not vaccinate until children are 2 years old unless there is real risk due to environment or parent lifestyle. And then let's space them out several months at a time and NOT use the magic 5 combo vaccines. There is no science behind combining vaccines and also no science behind the current vaccine schedule. It is purely based on the fact that doctors know we bring our kids in regularly as infants to watch them grow and they vaccinate then out of convenience.

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    I don't have kids yet, and haven't completely decided about it, but here are some of my concerns:
    My wife has a history of reactions to vaccines. She has terrible skin allergies that started when she got a certain anthrax series in the Army. Her allergies include thimerosal, and many other preservatives and chemicals such as parabens. She can't even use most "organic" liquid soaps. Her father had similar chemical reactions, as well as a young niece. One of her nephews was hospitalized recently because of a vaccination.

    I remember seeing a Japanese study from some years ago that showed vitamin D was more effective in preventing the flu in children than the vaccine. This link has a bit more: Vitamin D Council > Health conditions > Infections and autoimmunity > Influenza

    I understand how vaccines work on a basic level, but I've never found a good explanation of why the flu vaccines in consecutive years can be the same, yet you are still supposed to get it a second time. (This happened just a few years ago- 2010-11, I think.)

    Finally, a lot of doctors encourage new babies to get vaccines within six months. However, their immune systems are not actually up to snuff until six months, so they cannot produce the antibody responses that a child or adult could. You put the deactivated virus in, but the only antibodies the baby has are from the mother/breastmilk. If the baby can't produce the necessary response, what is the point?

    In truth, my wife is far better educated on this, having worked in healthcare for years, managing a hospital lab for at least a few. I'll probably go with whichever decision she lays out. She's not anti-vaccine, just concerned about her family and personal reactions being passed on to our kids. At this point there is cost/benefit ratio for us to look at that seems a bit more clear than most people's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by palebluedots View Post
    I find this topic interesting and a bit infuriating as well. I think people who do not vaccinate their children are being irresponsible to the rest of society. Grrr.....
    Walk in my shoes for a few weeks before you make such sweeping statements. I am not telling you to not vaccinate your children, but I am telling you I am not going to vaccinate mine anymore because of my experience with vaccines. Vaccines are known to damage. There is an entire Vaccine Injury Compensation Program run by the government to dole out money to those injured by vaccines. We need to get smart about how and who we vaccinate.

    I know quite a few people/children who cannot be vaccinated for certain diseases due to egg allergy, bakers yeast allergy, gelatin allergy or thimerosal allergy or that have had a negative reaction to a vaccine in the past and have been advised (by doctors, mind you) not to be given that vaccine again. Are they irresponsible?

    I find it interesting that people who spend so much time and effort analyzing what they eat and how they eat it are so averse to believing there might be a problem with injecting foreign matter into our babies or even our own bodies. Just sayin'...
    Last edited by PHaselow; 01-06-2013 at 08:02 AM.

    Age 48
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  7. #7
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    I was almost one of those non-vaccinators. I was on the fence for ages about vaccinations being real, proven science, but then also not wanting to shoot my kids up with god-knows-what-extra-crap that goes into those serums, and the number of shots demanded these days is horrifying to me.

    In the end hubby and I made a compromise - because we are always-homeschoolers, we do not need to comply with any school-mandated vacc schedule, so I told hubby that if he would agree to pay for all the extra office visits (when necessary, sometimes the peds will let you come in and let the nurse give the shot as long as it is okayed by the doc beforehand and the doc is also present in the office during), then I would get the kids vaccinated IF we did it one lonely little shot at a time AND it was killed-virus where live virus was standard.

    So my kids are vaccinated, just on one long, drawn-out schedule, and one of them I have so far denied as of today, the Gardasil.

    My peds have always been either Chinese or Indian, which I very much prefer, because then I get a lot more understanding for my alternative wishes and desire to use as many holistic methods as possible, along with the Western allopathic thing. I like the balance.

    PHaselow, I understand. I, too, have a special-needs kid, and being at odds with the hubby over a medical/treatment issue is awful, and would definitely be really hard on your relationship. The divorce rate among parents of special-needs kids is higher than the norm.

    For those of you who have only "typical" and healthy kids, be glad. We who have kids with major problems are quickly confronted with the fact that doctors/modern medical science do not know everything, frequently have no real answers at all, and sometimes actually do harm, and that leaves a parent to find their own answers and to educate themselves in any way we can, and do what we think is necessary for our progeny. I completely get where PHaselow is coming from - I put my kid on one strict-ass diet after high-powered docs couldn't find relief for her, and she (and other moms in her situation) are making their own contrary decisions.

    So then you start to wonder what else the doctors were not quite so right about, no matter how many letters follow their names...

  8. #8
    Earthy Mama's Avatar
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    I don't vaccinate because there is no way in hell I'm shoving a shit ton of chemicals in their bodies, or mine.

    Food industry, Big Pharma and Med Industry can suck it.
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    "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food" ~ Hippocrates

  9. #9
    Drumroll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHaselow View Post
    I have a child with regressive Autism. He was born seemingly fine. Baby book has entries like "My most social child" and "What a happy, healthy baby boy."

    About 1 week after his 6 month shots he stopped rolling from his back to his belly. Stuck like a turtle, and didn't relearn (with difficulty) until close to a year old. He also developed fairly significant reflux during this time.

    About a week after his 12 month shots he stopped learning new words. He was an early talker. At 10 months he used his first word appropriatetly: "off" when playing with a lamp switch. His language then turned into learning a new word but dropping the other word he had just learned.

    He then had his 15 month shots late and his 18 month shots early due to an illness and travel plans. Within 3 weeks he was 'gone'. We thought he had lost his hearing. We spent his second Christmas piling his presents around him without any response.

    Now, all of this is purely anecdotal, but either this disorder has an eerie pattern of developing at the same time vaccines are given or vaccines play a role. I believe the latter. We never got the horrible fevers and high pitched screaming that some report after the shots; just a sinister quiet removal of skills that doctors lovingly refer to as 'soft neurological signs'. I think some people have a genetic make-up or pre-existing exposure to chemicals/toxins that put them at risk of developing neurological problems from the ingredients in vaccines or that they have an inappropriate immune response. Families with a history of auto-immune disorders have a higher incidence of children on the spectrum.

    Some children seem to be born with Autism. More and more, we are seeing children like mine that are 'taken' later in their toddler years.

    Vaccinating is still a personal family decision. My husband is an MD and is forcing the issue to vaccinate my kids after 10 years of not doing so. It is causing a huge rift in my marriage. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But, in the meantime, my now almost 12 year old son on the spectrum has made tremendous strides and my older two are happy and healthy and have not contracted a single disease for which they were supposed to have been vaccinated. Luckily, I live in a state that allows a philosophical exemption from mandated shots. For me it is just as easy as signing a waiver.

    I don't know if it is actually true, but I believe the only incidence of polio in the US for years has been contracting it from the vaccine itself.

    My last rant: how in the hell can we expect someone with an immature immune system (infants) to have an appropriate immune response to a vaccine? Let's go back to the old vaccine schedule and not vaccinate until children are 2 years old unless there is real risk due to environment or parent lifestyle. And then let's space them out several months at a time and NOT use the magic 5 combo vaccines. There is no science behind combining vaccines and also no science behind the current vaccine schedule. It is purely based on the fact that doctors know we bring our kids in regularly as infants to watch them grow and they vaccinate then out of convenience.
    It's your decision to vaccinate or not vaccinate your child, but what infuriates ME is when people blame their own troubles ("my child has autism!") on the actions of a well meaning doctor or something we do not fully understand yet.

    As someone who lives on the spectrum myself, and has constant daily battles with the issues relating to my diagnoses, I know how you must be suffering and struggling just to help your child along. I know. I deal with these issues myself. I'd never wish them on someone else in a million years.

    But are you TRYING to teach your child to blame their problems on society? So, every time he has an issue or difficulty, society is to blame for causing it or not helping him solve it?

    I'm not discrediting the possibility that vaccines caused his issues, they might have. But I think it's a bad message to send when you tell them "the vaccines your doctor gave you made you who you are." You teach them to blame society and never take any responsibility for themselves and their own actions. You teach them to respond with things like "oh, it's ok, vaccines made me this way, society is at fault, not me."

    As someone growing up on the spectrum let me tell you right now that there are three things your child needs more than anything else to be able to make sense of the world around him:

    1) Your undying love and support. They do not need to mistakenly think "oh, I was normal until the vaccines. And then I started causing mommy trouble." As an autistic child, he is more likely to make this assumption through the misinterpretation of your intent.

    2) He needs to be taught to take responsibility for his actions. He needs to realize that autistic or not, if he does something inappropriate or wrong, he still has to pay the consequences. He can't always blame his issues on other people or society. And what do you think telling him "your doctor made you who you are," is going to teach him? To blame others and never take responsibility.

    3) He needs a strong support network. But if you've a) made him think he's causing you trouble ("I was normal and easy until that DAY that I became different and difficult") and b) to blame society for his actions and issues and not himself, he will never learn to cultivate the trust he needs to build the support networks he will need as he grows older.

    I've been through all of these issues and they're not easy to come to grips with. But you will have to decide how best to navigate them with your own child and I urge you, for his sake, to focus on HIM and not the "evil society/medical establishment/doctors" or whatever "gave him these issues." He NEEDS to know that, in reality, there is nothing wrong with him! Concentrating on what "gave" him his autism puts the emphasis on there being a real problem with him and he will constantly question himself and never build true confidence.

    I recommend, if you really want to do the best for your child you put the focus back on him and not on blaming society for making him what he is. Read up on neurodiversity, the genetic link to autism, and I'd encourage you to reach out to the good people at the Autistic Self Advocacy Network, which is non-profit founded for and by people with autism in order that they may protect their rights, spread information about neurodiversity, and shed the constant fears and blatant ableism that surrounds autism and constantly holds us back.

    Here's a link if you're interested: Autistic Self Advocacy Network | Nothing About Us Without Us

    [By the way, I personally know the organization's founder, he's one of the greatest autistic people I know, and I have nothing but respect for him. If he's not proof that an autistic person can be successful in life and doesn't need to be "cured" to live happily and successfully, then... There's no hope for this world and especially not for autistic people.]

  10. #10
    Primal123's Avatar
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    I think each family has their own reasons. To do over again I think I would avoid injecting my child with toxic chemicals especially for diseases she is not likely to get at the time. Like why does a newborn need a vaccine for a sexually transmitted disease before they leave the hospital? Why not wait until they have a mature immune system for that one. Why do we need so many vaccines? Europeans don't get as many doses and they are not dropping like flies.

    I also wonder why not run titers after first doses to see if they even need a booster. Even my veterinarian warned us against vaccinating our pets as the potential damage was far greater than the benefit from the vaccine. Said there is no scientific research showing the need for the current vaccine schedules for pets.

    It's not a simple decision, not a simple problem.

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