I found it very interesting that a site dedicated to feline health (by a vet), mentioned that veterinarian colleges have stopped teaching about immunizing cats, due to the health risks and lack of efficacy.
Basically, the "dead virus" form of vaccines (for cats, mind you) is packaged with an irritant to trigger immune response. The irritant is a know carcinogen.
Yes, I'll go find the website to link here... Adverse Reactions
From the section on Vaccine-associated sarcoma (cancer):
This one discusses the dead virus issue: Cat Owners Must Weigh Benefits with RisksIf a vaccine-associated fibrosarcoma develops, surgical removal is attempted, but generally, this tumor is so invasive it is difficult to remove it all. Radiation or chemotherapy are often recommended in combination with surgery.
Veterinarian vaccinating against FeLV in the left rear legGenerally, the FeLV vaccine is now given in the left rear leg, in an area distinct from where other vaccinations are given. If a tumor would develop, knowing which vaccine was given where will help us determine with which vaccine the tumor is associated. Also, if a tumor would develop, amputation of the leg would, in many cases, be curative. Cats do incredibly well on three legs, and many owners prefer this to having their cat succumb to a tumor.
So, what is the connection, since the OP was talking about children? These vaccines are produced in very similar ways, using pretty much the same theories, technology, and "inert" ingredients. If people, vets, and vet schools, are recognizing that it might be a risk assessment decision, then I would sincerely hope that parents would start applying that sort of decision making to it, rather than following the CW blindly.
And, yes, in certain circumstances, I would immunize. And have. Especially tetanus shots.
I have read says is a load of bulldookey.
There was a study in which the researchers falsified the results and thus made it seem like autism was caused by vaccines. He was caught out and discredited by the journals that published his papers and by his peers but by then the damage was already done à la Jenny McCarthy and co.
F 28/5'4/100 lbs
"I'm not a psychopath, I'm a high-functioning sociopath; do your research."
I vaccinated my kids. If I had my kids today... I don't know if I would. Or wait, I probably WOULD but NOT on the recommended schedule. The schedule today is INSANE. They're now immunising babies at just a couple of days old against Hep B (which as it's not even airborne, they're unlikely to get unless their mother is a carrier!!). It's nuts! Why not wait until the kid is 12 or 13 which they used to?? Geez, I wouldn't even get vaccinated against it... I'm really not afraid of contracting it... why would I want to vaccinate a newborn? (That being said, I DID have my two youngest immunised against it at the time... simply because I "did as I was told" but even then it freaked me out).
The number of vaccines, and the number of vaccines that are designed to be used against multiple diseases (DTP, MMR etc.) I don't believe to be as safe as claimed.
So, were I to go through it again, I'd INSIST on an extended schedule, and I'd request that all vaccines be against a single illness. I would NEVER have a newborn immunised against Hep B which I still think is ludicrous! Some vaccines I probably wouldn't bother with at all (stuff like chicken pox).
Of course, I'd also make sure my kids had the best diet possible to ensure their immune system was as good as possible.
My kids are all generally pretty healthy (despite being vaccinated I sometimes think!). My oldest son is Aspie, but I honestly don't think it's vaccine related (maybe it's impossible to tell... but really, I have symptoms of Asperger's too, as does my sister). But I also know of FAR TOO MANY kids who have been adversely affected by vaccination (or just a huge coincidence?!). Not always autism, but sometimes behavioural issues, learning issues etc. Kids who were formerly pretty well behaved and settled suddenly have ADHD etc.
I think there are excellent points on BOTH sides of the vaccination debate. I am entirely sympathetic to people who choose not to vaccinate at all, even if that's something I don't think I'd do... I certainly don't believe in over vaccination, and I have no intention to every have any other vaccines MYSELF, certainly not a yearly flu shot (I'd rather just keep healthy with a good immune system and avoid the flu that way, rather than have toxins injected into my body).
Hehehe sorry folks for opening this can of poisoned worms. I had no idea. I asked 'cause I did not know what to think. Frankly I still dont know what to think, My wife and I are both pro Vax such as it stands but we are also in Canada which we believe has higher safety standards than the US. (However we dont know for certain and will look into it.)
I do agree with the idea that we have the safety to refuse vax due to the fact that these diseases are no longer so prevalent due to long term Vax. I suspect if everyone stopped them, the diseases would come back with a will. Clean water also contributes too but to different sicknesses.
Thanks for everyone's input.
Primal since April 2012 Male 6' 3" SW 345lbs CW 240lbs GW 220lbs and when I get there I am getting a utlikilt. This one http://www.utilikilts.com/company/pr...ilts/workmans/ actually.
Join me at www.paleoplanet.net, where all the cavemen hang out.
Not getting into the for or against vaccination debate but I do find the subject rather fascinating. There was a study not too long ago that found the smallpox vaccine confers some immunity against hiv/aids, and that stopping the worldwide immunization program in the 70's allowed the aids epidemic to explode.
Vaccines are for a greater good, but may hurt some people. You can't sequester your kids if you don't vaccinate them. Well, I guess you can. The point isn't about individual health, it's about disease control among a population.
Take it down to animals. Some animals react really badly to vaccines. There are alternatives (they can pull a titer to make sure your dog is OK for rabies.). So yeah, a few animals suffer from the vaccines, but if we didn't have vaccines, we'd have rabies outbreaks where many suffer.
Does it suck to be the one who has a reactive pet or child? Hell yeah. But a lot more people are going to have sucky days if we don't vaccinate. I don't have kids... but I have a horse and have seen the consequences of non-vaccination go through a barn and kill 50% of the horses in an awful way.
I realise that this is a very emotive subject and people get very riled up about it. However, I don't like statements of personal opinion being bandied about as fact, no matter how widely they are considered to be true. It is impossible to prove that vaccines are solely or even largely responsible for the decline in serious diseases such as polio and the like. The way that pharma tries to "prove" this is by statistics. Anyone who knows anything about statistics know that they are notoriously easy to skew in favour of whatever you are trying to demonstrate. The curve typically shown on a graph to demonstrate a drop in fatalities due to a disease after the vaccine was introduced doesn't show the full picture, ie the entire curve back to first recorded incidences of the disease.
I REALLY dislike the statement "herd immunity" as if some of us should willingly (and unknowingly) sacrifice our child's life or health on the altar of "greater good". That is absolute junk. I am not saying that parents should be selfish, but if we don't care for our own children's health and best interest, who will? And surely on a forum like this, we are all aware of what a huge impact environmental factors, most especially food, have on our health and ability to effectively fight off serious disease. For example, it is no surprise that vaccines are accepted by a large proportion of the population due to the tremendous marketing and political influence over us, but still many women choose to breastfeed for a short time, not at all, or for only a year (and are ENCOURAGED to stop at one year by paediatricians!!). Which one earns a poopload of money? 'Nuff said in my opinion. We are responsible for our health and that of our children, and when we trust someone else who tells us that something is ESSENTIAL for the health and well being of our dearly loved child, and that thing damages them, how dare someone else say, you shouldn't blame other people for it?? I don't think any parent wants someone to blame, just to know who and what to trust. It is SUCH a hard issue for parents.
And to add on the subject of animals and vaccines, read some of Joel Salatin's books, he talks total comman sense about how if we get to bottom of transmission/cause of certain things we can take precautions that avoid immunization. But of course, that won't bolster the profits of big pharma.....
Last edited by sbufton; 01-07-2013 at 05:47 AM.