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Thread: Persistence Hunting page

  1. #1
    Primal1337's Avatar
    Primal1337 is offline Junior Member
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    Persistence Hunting

    Primal Fuel
    I have recently began looking through this website and I am very impressed with everything from the nutrition to the success stories that everybody has. However, one thing that I have noticed is that the PB view on fitness is slightly off... Mark repeatedly says that long distance cardio is not primal and thus has no place in this lifestyle. However, there is TONS of scientific research done by intellects such as Harvard's Anthropology Professor Daniel Lieberman that for over two million years, humans hunted not by shooting arrows or throwing spears but rather running the animal to exhaustion.

    Persistence Hunting is that technique. Through persistence hunting, Grok would have used superior tracking and running skills to chase an antelope to exhaustion-using a knife to finish the animal off at the very end. There are even some indigenous tribes such as the Kalahari Bushmen that still use this technique today and during these hunts, a human would have run consistently for upwards of 9 hours-totaling around 75 miles.

    So my question is: Why is long distance running not considered "primal" if Grok would have been logging a massive number of miles per week?
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear."

  2. #2
    NicoB's Avatar
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    Oh boy...

    That was among my first questions when I joined.

    If you look around the forums you'll find that question answered before.

    Personally I do agree that chronic cardio is bad, but running at an easy pace that can be maintained for hours doesn't count as CC (not racing in a marathon).

    I'm sure you'll get some better answers in a bit.

  3. #3
    Barefoot Paul's Avatar
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    This definitly has been answered before. but I, like you guys, don't really agree with what people say. I am more inclined to say that human beings can do almost any thing and eat almost anything. They can be productive and live fairly long lives. I also think that what is more important than how far you are running is whether you are stressed chronically. If it bothers you to run a lot then don't. If it makes you feel good to run for a long ways then do it. Living stress free ranks higher in my book than almost anything else.

    But I'm sure people will disagree. Thats fine.

    -Paul

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    doghead's Avatar
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    I would say there are several big difference between running or training for a marathon, and persistence hunting.

    With a marathon, you are likely training every day, or every other day, and are pushing yourself harder - there is always a goal with each run, some time marker, some distance marker. All that adds up to unnecessary stress.

    With persistence hunting, I would imagine no one really cares if you are running fast or slow, as long are you are still moving. You can probably take a break, walk a bit, then keep running. You are not doing it everyday, or every other day for that matter - it probably was every so often. And though there might be a stress factor -"must get food", it probably cannot compare to the stress marathoners put on themselves.

  5. #5
    fox's Avatar
    fox
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    This topic just made me think of this video.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wI-9RJi0Qo

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    I personally feel that our ancestors persistence hunted, whilst some had more abundant food available without this hunting. It was geography and resources.

    But the problem now with long distant running today such as the marathon, people are running against the clock, to get their PB, at a pace higher than maybe they should be, hence chronic cardio. The ultra runners are probably running at a pace more in line with Grok's long distance speed, but this sport is too fringe.
    Give them nothing! But, take from them everything!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal1337 View Post
    Harvard's Anthropology Professor Daniel Lieberman that for over two million years, humans hunted not by shooting arrows or throwing spears but rather running the animal to exhaustion.
    1) The techniques of modern HG people, and presumably Paleo people, is quite varied. Persistence hunting is but one of them.

    2) Persistence hunters don't "run" animals to death in the sense of jogging, that would exhaust the human faster than it does the prey animal. As I mentioned in one of Mark's posts recently, I have an Austrian acquaintance that worked with Bushmen trackers for many years. Their cadence during pursuit teeters between walking and trotting depending on the maneuver, but mostly walking. Pursuing the animal with any greater speed would be pointless (and counterproductive) because its tracks are typically visible and the trackers know the terrain extremely well, the whole purpose being to simply nudge the animal away from known shade points. The popular video that gets cited so often is misleading because it only shows points of the pursuit punctuated by "action".

  8. #8
    Vick's Avatar
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    It also ignores that most hunts was based on driving the herd to a point of attack or over the cliff.

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    Flushing is definitely the most efficient way of taking large prey in cooperative hunts, and it requires a certain level of cover to pull off, but that would be the normal scenario. The only mode of success for persistence hunting is in conditions that are exposed, hot and arid. All three conditions have to apply.

  10. #10
    MichaelA's Avatar
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    Persistence Hunting requires alot of running, yes, but that's not continuous running. It could be cardio considered for the modern homo sapiens, but for Grok it was just another day at hunting, intervals.... fast running alternating with resting...

    Humans are taking turns in this persistence hunting and it's alot of tactics how to tire the animal down until it fells out of it's feet and it's a easy prey.

    Bushmen in Africa are still doing this... read the book "Born to run" and the guy explains an episode of this thing.

    Captivating...

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