Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: LDL Particle Size

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    6

    LDL Particle Size

    Hi All,
    Did a search an did not see any results for this. Have recently had a physical, and the total cholesterol number is fine, the ldl particle number is way to high, meaning I have lots of small dense ldl particles. Dr. says to try diet for 3-4 months to improve, and then statins if no success. I know I don't want to go on statins. Has anyone had success with diet reducing the small ldl particles?

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    1,325
    Orthodoc, are you sure that you have the correct LDL breakdown? You mentioned the particle number, but is it type A (which, I believe, is the large, fluffy type) or type B (small and dense)? How is your HDL?

    I've read that particle size can be determined by your triglycerides - anything lower than 60 tends to lean toward the fluffy LDL particles, and higher than 150 tends to lean toward the small, dense LDL particles. An excellent way to lower your triglycerides is to stop eating refined/processed carbohydrates -- which is a cornerstone of the primal/paleo lifestyle.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by JackieKessler View Post
    Orthodoc, are you sure that you have the correct LDL breakdown? You mentioned the particle number, but is it type A (which, I believe, is the large, fluffy type) or type B (small and dense)? How is your HDL?

    I've read that particle size can be determined by your triglycerides - anything lower than 60 tends to lean toward the fluffy LDL particles, and higher than 150 tends to lean toward the small, dense LDL particles. An excellent way to lower your triglycerides is to stop eating refined/processed carbohydrates -- which is a cornerstone of the primal/paleo lifestyle.
    Triglycerides are 63, HDL was 51. The test was the NMR test by Liposcience, and they are the type B small particles that are too high- 1786.

    Since I posted this, I found a book called "The Great Cholesterol Myth" which seems to be covering the subject in great detail.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    702
    Orthodoc-
    As I understand it the main function of the NMR Lipoprofile is to measure LDL-P, which is the number of LDL Particles, not their size. There are some leading edge cardiologists (Thomas Dayspring and Tara Dall, for example) who think LDL-P is a more accurate measure of future CAD events than all other tests. You can hear a great lecture by Tara Dall on this subject on LecturePad (free). When I had the NMR done it also included LDL-C, HDL-C, trigs, TC HDL-P, small LDL-P, LDL size and a LP-IR score. This is distinct from a VAP which will provide you with the large fluffy vs small sticky A/B LDL types. According to Dall and Dayspring that is irrelevant and only the # of LDL particles is significant. Dall has had great success using Metformin to reduce particle count in her patients. In fact, I'm testing it out myself.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    165
    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post
    Orthodoc-
    Dall has had great success using Metformin to reduce particle count in her patients. In fact, I'm testing it out myself.
    Particle count does correlate with heart health. This in no way means that a drug that reduces particle count will benefit a person. Having a low count for genetic and/or dietary reasons and having a low count that was induced by exogenous biochemical agents are completely different things. I think you are playing with (very slow burning) fire here.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post
    Orthodoc-
    As I understand it the main function of the NMR Lipoprofile is to measure LDL-P, which is the number of LDL Particles, not their size. There are some leading edge cardiologists (Thomas Dayspring and Tara Dall, for example) who think LDL-P is a more accurate measure of future CAD events than all other tests. You can hear a great lecture by Tara Dall on this subject on LecturePad (free). When I had the NMR done it also included LDL-C, HDL-C, trigs, TC HDL-P, small LDL-P, LDL size and a LP-IR score. This is distinct from a VAP which will provide you with the large fluffy vs small sticky A/B LDL types. According to Dall and Dayspring that is irrelevant and only the # of LDL particles is significant. Dall has had great success using Metformin to reduce particle count in her patients. In fact, I'm testing it out myself.

    Yes, you are correct. I had the same #'s you mentioned from LipoScience NMR test. The LDL-P is the total number, and mine is too high (1700). What is Metformin? I am reading "The Great Cholesterol Myth" and I believe they mention Niacin as an option to help reduce the numbers.

    As a side note, I am 5"11, 167 and bodyfat is roughly 16-17%.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    165
    It would be helpful to know a few things: What does your diet look like now, and how long have you been doing that? Are you currently in the process of loosing (fat) weight? Also, do you have any past tests to compare these numbers to?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    702
    As I said, according to the cardiologists I mentioned, a high LDL-P is most predictive of CAD. Thus they recommend lowering LDL-P, and Metformin is a medication that they have had great success with and they find it is much more effective (and way less dangerous)than statins. In fact, Metformin has no significant negative history, is taken daily by many diabetics, and is now also being considered as a possible cancer treatment. My doctor -- and leading cardiologists -- find it much less dangerous than a high LDL-P. What information do you have that they don't that would have you think I'm playing with fire?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    760
    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post
    As I said, according to the cardiologists I mentioned, a high LDL-P is most predictive of CAD. Thus they recommend lowering LDL-P, and Metformin is a medication that they have had great success with and they find it is much more effective (and way less dangerous)than statins. In fact, Metformin has no significant negative history, is taken daily by many diabetics, and is now also being considered as a possible cancer treatment. My doctor -- and leading cardiologists -- find it much less dangerous than a high LDL-P. What information do you have that they don't that would have you think I'm playing with fire?
    I believe Chris Masterjohn understands cholesterol and atherosclerosis better than anyone on the planet. Here is an excellent video. Mercola is a lightweight and has trouble formulating his questions but it doesn't detract from Masterjohn's expertise. LDL-P may be a decent marker; but, as The Scientist already said and Masterjohn explains, reducing LDL-P does not necessarily reduce risk. Also, it isn't at all clear that LDL particle size and count are additive to the standard risk cholesterol ratios which have been used for many years. I have listened to and read rather extensively Dall, Dayspring, Masterjohn, Attia and others. None inspire confidence in me as well as Masterjohn.


    YouTube
    Last edited by Artbuc; 01-01-2013 at 04:37 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    837
    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post
    As I said, according to the cardiologists I mentioned, a high LDL-P is most predictive of CAD. Thus they recommend lowering LDL-P, and Metformin is a medication that they have had great success with and they find it is much more effective (and way less dangerous)than statins. In fact, Metformin has no significant negative history, is taken daily by many diabetics, and is now also being considered as a possible cancer treatment. My doctor -- and leading cardiologists -- find it much less dangerous than a high LDL-P. What information do you have that they don't that would have you think I'm playing with fire?
    My hubby turned into a mindless zombie on a 1/2 dose of Metformin. Obviously it has brain effects on some people; so he quit it. However, lp(a) is the most dangerous particle for forming plaques and blockages, and it is a fraction of LDL that can be measured, but needs to be requested.
    However, LDL is necessary in the body. Newest research is lifting the tired old "bad cholesterol" image that it has acquired. Check it out.
    Last edited by Paysan; 01-03-2013 at 08:22 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •