Yeah, agree to disagree, there--I'm not convinced it's simply the fat intake that's doing it. Especially since it does also work with sugar water. I agree that eating more fat is great for your health, but this specific appetite-suppression + setpoint lowering effect has a bit more to it than just eating more fat, IMO. For instance, I tried the "eat moar fat" approach, and while I did eat fewer calories--actually, fewer calories than I'm eating now--and was completely satisfied/not hungry, I didn't lose any weight.
But that appetite suppressing effect is exactly what Enig and Fallon are talking about. I don't think there's any disagreement. Other than the fast metabolism of the MCTs in coconut oil, they are not claiming that fat is a magical substance.
Originally Posted by heatseeker
I would say it is possible to do the same AS effect with sugar but I don't see any way in which that would be beneficial to your overall health. (Unless of course someone has drunk the Ray Peat Cool-aid.)
It just seems that, if you are going to choose a tool to suppress appetite, you would be better off with fat than sugar.
Oh, totally. I see what you're saying. Yeah, that's why I didn't go with the sugar water. As far as diet hacks go, I only experiment if it passes the "couldn't hurt" test, and downing sugar water twice a day did not pass that test.
Well, interesting here.
I do hate the coconut oil, but sliding it down with some water helped a heap. interesting test today.
breakfast -- eggies, butter, cheese (rare for me, it's the holidays!), cucumbers (lots), orange. All good.
two hours later -- coconut oil plus plain water to slide it down without tasting it.
two hours later -- not hungry, tea (we were berry picking) plus bit of not-gluten free, not-sugar free "holy sh** this is good" chocolate cake.
three hours later, not hungry, dinner (gluten free pizza -- its the holidays! followed by fresh picked berries and whole cream -- it IS the holidays!).
Anyway, most terrible food day this year. Second on the list was three months ago. That was m&ms and cookies day (plus tea and nothing else, for serious). third worst day was passionfruit ice cream between pukings. that was in june. Overall, three bad days ain't bad in my book. To whom am I justifying?
Anyway, coconut oil went down a treat.
Considering doing this again tomorrow.
Do I need to loose weight? No idea.
I am a firm believer in cheats. You gotta enjoy life. Sometimes that means having chocolate cake.
Miss Seeker of Heat; I am just here to formally tell you that I hate you.
Just when I'm about to give up trying new things and think I know everything there is to know, you come along with this dumbass idea that you can drink some oil and magically reset your weight...that's stupider than my "Potato Diet". Can't work. Stupid.
I'm reading the new Perfect Health Diet book, Perfect Health Diet - A diet for healing chronic disease, restoring youthful vitality, and achieving long life and have finally found a "Mark Sisson, Primal Approved" methodology for figuring out the optimal ratios of carb-protein-fat and adding back potatoes in mass quantities every day--not just on 2 week tater-benders.
Then, all-of-a-sudden, on page 57, the author Paul Jaminet writes: "During your [intermittant]fast, eat a spoonful of an MCT oil or coconut oil. The psychologist Seth Roberts, in The Shangri-La Diet, found that eating such 'tasteless calories' in isolation suppresses appetite."
Later, on page 393, he goes on to say, "Coffee can be flavored with a spoon of coconut oil. The MCT oil or coconut oil is ketogenic and supports autophagy during the fast. It also applies the Shangi-La Diet idea of eating tasteless calories during a fast to lower appetite."
Reading these blurbs a few days after I read your (stupid) post got me curious...I started googling the SLD, looked around their website, clicked on the links in this thread, and have to say I am quite impressed by the research that has gone into why this works.
Not wanting to throw another factor in the mix, I'm going to work on getting my Perfect Health Diet in good order and when I see I am weight-stable for a couple months, I will start with some fasted oil.
So, Heatseeker, if you don't mind, I have a few questions: I normally IF until noon, is once a day good enough, ie. mid-morning for me? I read they recommend something like 1TBS per 75lbs of weight, that would be about 3 TBS for me--sound right? Do you use organic virgin coconut oil? The stuff I have is solid at room temp and has quite a coconut smell, but little taste--is that the good stuff?
Hope you know I was just kidding about hating you I'm really glad you posted this. After I try it, I will come back and let you know how it works. I learned a long time ago not to throw too many hacks in the ring at once! It makes it hard to tell what's doing what.
otzi -- you so crazy.
treats -- i put them in 20%, whether they are GF, primal, or not, as well as whether or not they are savory or sweet. looking at my average week, it's far less than 20%, but it's easier for me to see it as "ok" then as a "cheat."
Last edited by zoebird; 01-04-2013 at 10:23 AM.
Otzi, as long as its refined it should best tastless. Anything "virgin" will have a coconut taste.
Also during your fast, take a tbs first thing in the morning and another about 2-3 hours later. I guarantee it will boost fat loss.
Its a pretty interesting concept. Many people including Peat think that coconut oil is quite the metabolic booster and has many other beneficial properties. Megadosing it could very well induce weightloss.
Heetseeker, im wondering if you used a different oil or the sugar water if you would see the same results.
Worked for me using organic (refined, tasteless) canola oil and using Extra Light Olive Oil. The canola was the most effective. If I go back to it now, though, I'd go the coconut route.