Shangri-La Diet - setpoint success at last page 21

[jadedgamerx]

Read through everything here today and subscribed, I find the topic fascinating and would like to hear the long term results as people approach them. I'm going to start on this tomorrow and see if I have any noticeable changes over the next few weeks. I am actually more interesting in the metabolic affect of the twice daily CO consumption but wouldn't mind losing a few pounds in the process to reach my GW more quickly (on top of adding my own data into the results of this thread for further insight/clarification).

heatseeker: Thanks for bringing up the topic and I'm glad to see you are finally breaking through and moving towards your goals. It must be a great feeling. Keep it up and keep us informed

marthat: How long ago did you stop this experimental protocol, and did that directly result in a:
1) Rise in scale weight
2) Rise in fat storage
3) Increase in food craving/quantity per day
4) Do you remember or did you track the amount of time between stopping the protocol and how long it took for you to go back to your original "set point" to use the term we all seem to be embracing here.

Ripped: The vast majority of the posts you have made are rather Troll'ish - some of them are not. It goes to reason that you are not always acting like a preachy, elitist as*h*le. It would be wonderful if you would open your mind a bit and stop regurgitating the same bullsh*t post after post and embrace the more factual posting you seem to be capable of from time to time. That or please go post your own thread on your wonderful journey in low calorie fat loss as others have suggested - you are constantly taking this thread off topic to the point where a mod should have already removed you from this thread.

[sbhikes]

Seth Roberts has an interesting chart from someone who kept meticulous records for YEARS of his experience before and during the SLD.
Seth's Blog » Blog Archive » Ten Years of Weights, Including Two Years on the Shangri-La Diet
More detail here:
Shangri-La Diet: Two years of data

I think the 2nd link will clear up some of the gnashing of teeth over the complexity and details.

By the way, I have never bought any of that nonsense about "you must eat xzy exactly 123 minutes before/after blah blah blah." Really, 15 minutes will wipe out any benefits? That's just silly.

[marthat]

Holy Cow!! I go to work for a day and the thread grows by 4 pages!!

IN answer to some of the above concerns:

Toothbrushing: Just use water or use baking soda to brush your teeth within the flavour-free (FF) window.

My weight regain experience took years. I maintained not-quite-every-day oilshots (2 tbsp once a day in mis-p.m.) for several years after I lost the weight, but then as I moved on and particularly when I started looking into Primal, I moved away from it. It has worked to help me re-lose the weight several times. Remember that I'm only dealing with about 15-20 lbs. The same 15-20 lbs, over and over again it seems. I seem stuck at 148-152, and I want to weight 133-135. That's where I feel the best.

Primal and SLD are a match made in heaven and work very well for me, but only when I work with it. SLD is a tool of appetite modification, not a magic bullet. You still have to listen to your appetite and eat in accordance with it. When it works, you will eat lots less, hence the weight loss. But also, something changes in your homeostatic control mechanisms for weight that allows you to lose the weight without the desperate struggle to regain that usually happens to us. That's the "magic", and I'm not sure that anyone has clearly elucidated that mechanism. I'm re-reading Good Calories, Bad Calories right now and it just reinforces the multitude of factors that go into obesity, weight control, gaining and losing, diabetes, hormonal levels, etc. It is such a complicated system and so many incorrect assumptions have been made along the way regarding cause and effect vs associations.

[cantare]

Interesting thread...wonder how much of it I'm already incorporating by fasting all day except coffee w/ cream, and occasional "snacking" on pure butter. In that irritating "how to drop the last 20" phase, it's great to have so many hacks to try out!

[jadedgamerx]

Thank you for the clarification and toothburshing tip marthat

[NZ primal Gwamma]

I havn't read this whole thread as yet, however I am working on it. I am upping my fat intake as per 'eat moar fat' thread, and have a couple of questions for anyone in the know !
Can you buy capsules full of oil ??????? and would this have the same effect as swallowing liquid oil ?
I have upped my fat but am getting an horrendous bloated sore gut - could this be from added oil ? which I have been having mid morning (MCT oil)
Is MCT oil a suitable oil to consume ?
thanking you in advance
G x

[bloodorchid]

So you fasted for months, but didn't lose weight? I think I'll believe that when I throw an apple up in the air and it doesn't come back down.

By the way, where did the idea come from that I was pushing sugar on people? Eat less means eat less. And yes, that means sugar too.

I honestly don't care if you believe it or not, i just want your expert opinion on why reduced calories didn't work for me if all a fatty has to do is eat less

[zoebird]

I've opted to use coconut oil and flax oil (alternating days) and possibly CLO (with pinched nose of course) as my "snack" because I tend to eat between 11-3 (first meal), and then don't eat again until 7, but I'm generally ravenous by then and overeat. I added in a snack (nuts/fruit) at 4:30/5ish, which helps, but I'm not keen on eating that many nuts even though it's only a hand-full of pistachios and macadamias (I still have my two brazil nuts per day for selenium). So, instead of this snack, I found that one tbs of the oil is a good way to not be ravenous by 7, thereby eating less at dinner.

I don't know how that's going to relate to calories, since I expect I should eat about 800 calories over two meals (or really, 732.5 per meal since the oil is 135 cals per tbs) -- so those are fairly large meals. But, we shall see.

Also, we shall see if it leads to any weight loss -- or if I just stay put.

If nothing else, it will allow me to not need a snack, thereby simplifying my life.

[heatseeker]

A teaspoon, but 1 tbsp is 3 tspns, so I am trying to find the minimal amount I need to take to subdue hunger. Plus, I am wondering if I need to do it more often throughout the day i.e. between all 3 meals (i.e. 4 times a day) so for 2 tbs, I need to take 1/2 tbsp each time - i.e. a rounded teaspoon.

I hate to risk sounding snotty, but I think you're overthinking this. Just take a tablespoon of oil twice a day. That's it. It doesn't need to be in accordance with any food timing or anything else. The only important thing is the 2-hour flavorless window.

By the way, I have never bought any of that nonsense about "you must eat xzy exactly 123 minutes before/after blah blah blah." Really, 15 minutes will wipe out any benefits? That's just silly.

I agree--I don't think shorting my flavorless window by 10-15 minutes if I needed to would do me any harm, or make the SLD calories suddenly not do their thing. But then, I don't have trouble finding 2 hours of no flavor in which to sandwich my oil, so I've never needed to short the window.

SLD is a tool of appetite modification, not a magic bullet. You still have to listen to your appetite and eat in accordance with it. When it works, you will eat lots less, hence the weight loss. But also, something changes in your homeostatic control mechanisms for weight that allows you to lose the weight without the desperate struggle to regain that usually happens to us. That's the "magic", and I'm not sure that anyone has clearly elucidated that mechanism.

Yes! Exactly. This is what I was trying to say before, and couldn't figure out how to communicate. It's not like SLD makes you NEVER get hungry or anything. It just changes your hunger from a constant, OMG I MUST EAT A WHOLE PIZZA NOW level to a normal, non-metabolically-damaged person's level, and allows you to easily grow accustomed to eating smaller portions less often. But it ALSO makes it so that this caloric restriction actually has an effect, as opposed to when I restricted calories but couldn't lose any weight.

Can you buy capsules full of oil ??????? and would this have the same effect as swallowing liquid oil ?

I read on the SLD forums that somebody did this with something like 20 capsules of fish oil a day (which came out to around 2 tbsp), and it worked just as it should. The thought of swallowing 20 big pills a day is incomprehensible to me (and also that sounds really expensive), but hey, if you want to try it, try it.

I have upped my fat but am getting an horrendous bloated sore gut - could this be from added oil ? which I have been having mid morning (MCT oil)
Is MCT oil a suitable oil to consume ?

MCT oil is great. Your body is probably just sensitive to the dose of oil all at once. Some people are more sensitive than others and need to start with smaller doses and build up until it's comfortable. I did 2tbsp in one dose once and had to run to the bathroom 20mins later; I've read other people report that they do 3tbsp in one dose with no problems.

I don't know how that's going to relate to calories, since I expect I should eat about 800 calories over two meals (or really, 732.5 per meal since the oil is 135 cals per tbs) -- so those are fairly large meals.

I think the amount of calories you restrict obviously varies depending on body size, but I find that while doing SLD, my body is happy with an intake of about 1000 food calories per day, plus the 300 more flavorless calories. I'm full, satisfied, and I lose weight at a good clip. Before SLD, I was eating between 1300 and 1800 calories depending on the day.

If nothing else, it will allow me to not need a snack, thereby simplifying my life.

Not only that--the first thing I noticed was how much less I was spending on food in a week. My food spending was literally cut in half. Add in the 10 bucks spent on coconut oil every couple weeks, and I'm still saving quite a bit of money! A nice perk.

[marthat]

Can you buy capsules full of oil ??????? and would this have the same effect as swallowing liquid oil ?
I have upped my fat but am getting an horrendous bloated sore gut - could this be from added oil ? which I have been having mid morning (MCT oil)

G x

Several SLD folks have tried the capsules, but like Heatseeker said, they had to take dozens to get the amount of calories in several tbsp's of oil. Super expensive and inconvenient, IMO.

Also, there were some on the forums who recommended using digestive enzymes to help with fat digestion if sensitive. I've never used them or needed them, but one poster stated she just got hers at the drugstore/natural products part of Walmart.