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Thread: Shangri-La Diet - setpoint success at last page 2

  1. #11
    jojohaligo's Avatar
    jojohaligo is offline Senior Member
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    unless by "sushi" he means raw fish, rather than rice.
    Female, age 51, 5' 9"
    SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

    Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
    2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

  2. #12
    otzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    unless by "sushi" he means raw fish, rather than rice.
    Hmmm, you could be right. I always think of sushi as raw fish and cold rice.

  3. #13
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    Dr. Bork Bork, to clarify, you're not eating only flavorless calories. You're eating normally, but also eating 1-3 tbsp of flavorless oil (I use coconut oil) in between meals, like a supplement. Fear not, I still eat my usual wide variety of delicious primal goodies . I just eat much less than I used to.

    A rundown of my food intake would be: I eat very strictly 80/20 primal, with the 20% coming from white rice (sushi), corn tortillas on tacos (I live in Texas), and the occasional red wine or ice cream. My diet is very typical primal fare: pastured meats, sweet potatoes, tons of greens and vegetables (I eat kale, collards and broccoli pretty much every day), lots of fish and avocado, animal fats, coconut milk, occasional fruit like berries. I do eat dairy, in the form of greek yogurt, cottage cheese, and fancy aged cheese. I found that my athletic pursuits and general state of mind are better when I consume a slightly higher carb level than the typical MDAer, so I eat 100-150g carbs a day in the form of sweet potatoes, white rice, and vegetables.

    The thing I like about the SLD is that it's changed nothing about my eating habits besides the amounts/portions. I still eat all the same stuff, I still have my occasional cheats, etc., I'm just satisfied by half as much food as I used to be. It's both the simplest and most effective thing I've ever done. The other nice thing about it is that it's really no big deal to test it out if you want to experiment. A couple tbsp of coconut oil is not gonna hurt you. (Unless you take all the oil at once in one dose, which I did once and spent some quality time in the bathroom within 20mins.)

  4. #14
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    sbhikes is online now Senior Member
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    How do you choke down the coconut oil?
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 170 x 3. Current Deadlift: 220 x 3

  5. #15
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    I wonder if you could get the same effects just by adding more fat to your regular meals, like with a fatty sauce, or tweaking your macros to be higher fat? Or does it have to be straight bland oil to work?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by heatseeker View Post
    [B]A rundown of my food intake would be: I eat very strictly 80/20 primal, with the 20% coming from white rice (sushi), corn tortillas on tacos (I live in Texas), and the occasional red wine or ice cream. My diet is very typical primal fare: pastured meats, sweet potatoes, tons of greens and vegetables (I eat kale, collards and broccoli pretty much every day), lots of fish and avocado, animal fats, coconut milk, occasional fruit like berries. I do eat dairy, in the form of greek yogurt, cottage cheese, and fancy aged cheese. I found that my athletic pursuits and general state of mind are better when I consume a slightly higher carb level than the typical MDAer, so I eat 100-150g carbs a day in the form of sweet potatoes, white rice, and vegetables.
    You are almost practicing the Perfect Health Diet verbatim...

    In the PHD, the macro breakdown is roughly 30% carbs, 20% protein, and 50% fat. Their recommendation for losing weight is to keep the carb and protein calories the same, but reduce fat. They also recommend a couple tablespoons of coconut oil a day.

    I can see from your post on the SLD and from reading the PHD, that I have been sabotaging myself in weightloss efforts. I didn't start looking at starch and fat hard enough until I stumbled onto the Potato Diet of which I write about a lot...

    In the past, I was maintaining well on about 10-20% carbs, 30-40% Protein and 50% fat. Whenever I would try to bust through the plateau, I would cut carbs even lower and up fat.

    I'm glad you found your Shangri-La, but I have to say, I'll bet it works so well for you mainly because of what you are considering 'cheats' ie. potatoes and corn. You have stumbled on the perfect macro ratios for you! Good job. Keep it up and keep telling us about it.

  7. #17
    heatseeker's Avatar
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    How do you choke down the coconut oil?
    Good question . Usually I just man up and pop a tablespoon in my mouth, chew, and swallow. Lately, though, it's been squicking me out a little, so sometimes I melt it in a little hot water and knock it back like a shot.

    I wonder if you could get the same effects just by adding more fat to your regular meals, like with a fatty sauce, or tweaking your macros to be higher fat? Or does it have to be straight bland oil to work?
    Kata, the point is that there's no food-reward in the brain along with the extra calories. The oil has to be flavorless and you have to ingest it an hour after and an hour before any other flavors, so that your body doesn't associate it with flavor. I've sometimes tripped up and brushed my teeth or popped some gum in my mouth without thinking. You have to be careful. Wait at least an hour after any food/flavor, take the oil, then wait another hour before any other flavor. Just water.

    Even refined coconut oil has a little flavor, so I take it while holding my nose. I know, I know--it's so bizarre, and I feel silly doing it each and every time, but dangit, it works.

    I'm glad you found your Shangri-La, but I have to say, I'll bet it works so well for you mainly because of what you are considering 'cheats' ie. potatoes and corn. You have stumbled on the perfect macro ratios for you! Good job. Keep it up and keep telling us about it.
    I'm fairly confident that it's the flavorless oil combined with appetite suppression, rather than macro balance, that's caused the setpoint change. I'd been eating the same macros for years (I've been primal/paleo for quite a while) with no change in my weight setpoint, and had tried all the different macro tweaks, like LC, VLC, carb cycling, high protein/low fat, high fat/low protein, etc, with no results. I'd even done caloric restriction with no results. Don't ask me to explain it (read the book, because I'm pretty sure he explains the science well, based on others' reviews), but it's something about tricking your body into thinking it has more calories than it needs by circumventing the food-reward cycle that makes it suddenly start to let go of its happy homeostasis. Which, for me, my body's happy homeostasis was about 25-30 pounds more than I was happy with, so being able to alter the setpoint was really the key.

    TL;DR: Calorie restriction alone did not work for me. Calorie restriction + extra calories from flavorless oil = success.

  8. #18
    otzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heatseeker View Post
    TL;DR: Calorie restriction alone did not work for me. Calorie restriction + extra calories from flavorless oil = success.
    I will put reading SLD on my to-do list! I know whatyou mean about trying everything to get your set-point to move. So, maybe the success of the PHD is in the fact they advocate eating some coconut oil as a snack...

    Anyway, glad it's working for you and thanks for sharing. You should starta new thread 'Eat MOAR coconut oil'

    edit: just checked out 'Girly Pushups'...you look fantastic!
    Last edited by otzi; 12-31-2012 at 11:10 AM.

  9. #19
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    I did it for years and it really works. Brought me down from a stubborn setpoint of 148-150 (where, coincidentally, I happen to be stuck right now) to my goal of 133-135 lbs in 3 months when I first tried it. Not a perfect fit for everyone, but holy cow, it was like a magic pill for me.

    My journal on the SLD forums is called Shovelqueen's SLD Adventure. Shovelqueen's SLD Adventure in case anyone is interested (it goes on for 139 pages, but the first 10 or so will give you an idea of my experience). I was using canola oil to start (I know, I know, but it was 2007 for cryin' out loud!), then switched to Extra Light Olive Oil. Others have used flax oil, I'd like to try it again with coconut oil (refined). I've always taken it holding my breath and then rinsing my mouth out. It's easy and discreet, especially with a liquid oil.

    Glad of a reminder that it really does work....

  10. #20
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    I'll read those links; thanks drumroll.

    To make sure I'm understanding what you are doing, heatseeker, I'm going to spell this out as I'm thinking I understand it (before reading blogs).

    First, you assert that your calorie restriction is 12-1500 calories per day. Does this include the extra fat that you take twice a day (ostensibly at two "snack times")? Or, is it that amount of calories plus then another 2 tbs (one tbs per go) of fat -- which is 270 calories according to our jar -- for a total of 1500-1700 calories per day?

    I ask this because sometimes calories are restricted too low for the individual's actual overall use, which can then hormonally slow them down, such that when they add a couple of hundred calories -- particularly from fat -- it tends to do them quite well overall.

    And second, the movement you currently do is 2-3x week heated vinyasa practice (1.5 hrs) plus also daily home practice (45-90 mins?) plus also crossfit -- are you doing this daily or only 3-4x week (you probably answered this in another thread). Are you doing HIIT cardio (sprints) with it as well? I'm mostly just curious.

    Are you still doing an IF protocol, or did you just let that go and go back to a wider (normal) eating window?

    I'm interested to read how this works in the in-between eating. I have found since doing IF that I don't eat all that often anymore. Usually, two meals and sometimes a snack. Sometimes I go for one big meal per day. It is starting to look a bit like "alternate day fasting" or really, having 2 days a week where I have one meal, and several days where I have two. Between ovulation and menses, I"m likely to have the snack, whereas the other couple of weeks, I"m likely to not snack. Also, fruit consumption is way down (just naturally), but veggie craving is way up.

    I do consume plenty of oils in my foods (butter, olive oil, coconut oil). I'm unlikely to toss the stuff back in between meals. Yuck. LOL

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