Ranting and rambling. Or, What's with the fads lately??? page 5

[gopintos]

I dont understand why the potato hack has so much momentum. It worked for a few people and they seem to be the ones pushing it across multiple threads and websites. Atticus kept very detailed results and his BF% loss was a matching number from a caloric deficit. He also lost a bunch of lean mussle mass. Some reported gaining weight, some reported getting sick...IDK Dont get me wrong I love the n-1's. But if its not sustainable in the long term neither will be the results.

I dont see anything wrong with that either. I push Primal/Paleo/PHD across many threads and websites also.

Atticus, is he the guy that did it for months? We are not talking months. We are talking a few days to a couple of weeks. Use it only when you need to. A day here or there, just like a fast or just like skipping lunch. Are those fads as well? And maybe by definition they are. But if they are tools you use ongoing, I don't classify that as a true fad. Same as a carb refeed. Maybe that is a fad also. But it is something that now I know I should do once in awhile, and when I do, I know that I can use potatoes.

The original question, is what is with the fads lately, and ppl trying to find a quick fix. JMO, but if you have been doing primal for a period of time, and not seeing the results that you want, it is time to shake it up. And it can be done still using Primal foods. That doesnt mean you are doing it wrong. It just means you are doing what works for you.

I went Primal in March, and weight loss started to crawl. I lost 20lbs between March and October. (actually I was pretty much eating primal before that. Just different macros) At that rate, I will reach my goal weight in a couple of years. Like 4 or 5. Sorry, for me, I am not waiting that long. I am going to tweak until I find what works for me. CW dieting at 50carbs/30fat/20protein was getting it done at about 10lbs per month. Trouble was, I was hungry all the time. Now I have learned a thing or two about what satiates me. I have learned about where my calories need to be. And I have learned a few tricks or "fads" to move things along. That might be a couple days of HF/LC followed by a few days of higher carbs. I have learned that alot of days (to weeks & months) of HF doesnt cut it for me. But, I did learn that yes, I can maintain my weight on high(er) fat. But I am not ready to maintain it yet. I still need to lose it yet.

So maybe we are seeing the "fads" now, because ppl have been doing primal for awhile now, and yet they still arent quite where they want to be, so now they are trying to tweak off those last few pounds. So what if it is all tators now. So what if it is all cantaloupes in the summer. Mark has written plenty about seasonal eating. We are not talking extended durations.

Some ppl see fasting for days as just as crazy and just as extreme. And I think we all know you cant do that for an extended duration either, but some do use it now and then when they feel they need it. Or maybe cuz they just want to. I could probably eat all steak for a few days on end also. And I would probably drop a few pounds also but at some point it becomes not good for you.

But as far as not sustainable long term, keeping the quick little hack in your back pocket is sustainable. Take a day here and there and eat all meat. Or eat all tators. Or maybe you need a refeed. Or eat all eggs. Maybe there was a good sale. Or don't eat at all - maybe there was no sale and you are broke. Use your resources and knowledge to the best of your ability.

I think it is great for those of you that have reached your goal weight eating primal. How many pounds and how long did it take you? For those that havent reached your goal, how much is left and how long do you think it will take you yet? As I already mentioned, for me, I would like to lose another 70lbs. At 60% fat my weight loss crawls to almost a stop. I was lucky to get 2lbs a month. At 1.5lbs per month, it will take me another almost 4 years. To me, it doesnt make sense knowing that there are things that I can do about it, and not do it. Even just tweaking my macros around a little, improves it. Maybe I just need to eat tators a couple days a week. Maybe I need to fast a couple days a week. If I can't, or don't want to, then I need to be content at following the outline as written, and losing 1.5lbs per month. That is better than none I guess. Upwards around 70%+ fat, I actually lose no weight but I can easily maintain. I just dont want to maintain my extra 70lbs for any longer than I have to.

Sorry. I guess I rant also. I have been at this for over a year. Slow changes on my own for almost a year, then seriously trying to focus and learn and apply for a year. Primal since March. I am just trying to figure my own self out. Share my experiences. Maybe something might help someone else, either what to do or what not to do.

[canuck416]

Althaur, I have to say your original thread post was a breath of fresh air. Its been interesting to see the Forum evolve over the short time I've been following and posting. I've been getting a bit tired of the somewhat petty and acrimonious back and forth and was thinking about moving on, but your post has caused me to reconsider...Thanks!

[Miss Understood]

I'm certainly an advocate of maintaining a primal diet. I am not one who utilizes the 80/20. I never go off the wagon and eat pizza, pasta, bread or cookies. I lost 55 pounds in ten months. I am content at this weight but wouldn't mind losing another 7-8 pounds which I imagine will be more difficult than previous weight loss. Mostly I am extremely determined to prevent weight creep. I reached my target weight in early November and just in the last week have crept up a bit thanks to snacking on nuts and cheese (so I wouldn't eat the Christmas crap most people indulge in). Normally it takes me one or two weeks to lose a pound or a pound and a half. Doing the potato hack I lost that in two days. Why would I not take this shortcut? It's not like I'm eating frankenfoods.

[namelesswonder]

I dont know, I dont see the big deal of people tweaking primal to meet their goals.

I agree. For me, primal is what you make it. Sure, there are some limits. Eating a vegan diet with soy would not be primal, but messing with macros? Sure, why not. Potatoes are primal to some people. Eating dairy is paleo to others.

The thing I saw with last Friday's success story is that it was a great example of n=1. This guy clearly embarked on an extended EXPERIMENT. I did not think that was unclear in his story, that these were tweaks, that he was experimenting, trying out new things, but they aren't long term solutions. All of the Friday success stories are n=1. If people don't see them that way, I don't think it's a problem with the content.

And maybe things were different in the earlier days of the forum. I think that's to be expected. Maybe it's not evolving the way you'd prefer, but this is just kind of what happens. Keeping things "on topic" is pretty much impossible with this number of people. Everyone has a right to say and try what they want. I did sympathize with the OP's rant, and found myself agreeing here and there, but that's only because other people's experiments don't mesh with my own. Eat potatoes if you want, just remember that it's not a fix for everyone.

[magnolia1973]

Doing the potato hack I lost that in two days. Why would I not take this shortcut? It's not like I'm eating frankenfoods.

Well, does it remain lost when you return to primal eating? Or does it come back?

[otzi]

Eat potatoes if you want, just remember that it's not a fix for everyone.

I have a feeling that potatoes will become a prominent factor in Paleo/Primal Blueprint over the next few years as new editions are written.

I spent the last few days with Jack LaLanne and Paul Jaminet...well, their books anyhow.

In Jack's last book, Live Young Forever, which he wrote a year or so before he died at age 96. In the beginning, he says something like, 'don't just skim this book, read it carefully, these are my thoughts on health and fitness from observing people for 95 years.' Besides a grueling workout regimine he kept til the end, he ate whole food and didn't compromise. He ate grains, but not flour. He ate potatoes, but not with butter and sour cream. I don't think he mentioned carb-fat-protein in the whole book, which was a breath of fresh air!

In Paul Jaminet's new Perfect Health Diet, with an intro by Mark Sisson, he recommends everyone eat 1-2 pounds of potato, sweet potato, rice, plantain, or cassava, AND 1-2 pounds of veggies/fruit, AND 1 pound of meat. His DO NOT EAT list is short...vegetable oil, grains, beans, and sugar. Everything else is allowed to some extent.

Since rice is a grain, I'm surprised it made his safe starch list, but at any rate, I think we are being steered toward a diet that is 1/3 starch based. Notice I didn't say 'carb based', but starch based.

I am leery of rice, and eat it sparingly. I think sweet potatoes and potatoes will be the new "Big Ass Salad" of the PB future.

In his intro to Perfect Health Diet, Mark Sisson says "I am a generalist, Paul Jaminet is a scientist". I think you guys might be ahead of the game if you get a copy and read it.

When discussing keto and low carb diets, Paul Jaminet still wants us to eat potatoes and rice while on these diets. There is 'stuff' in potatoes, sweet potatoes, etc... that is vitally important to our health. It's way bigger than glycogen and insulin.

[Miss Understood]

The weight i lost remains off. I did this once before to get under 150 before our anniversary trip in November. It stayed off until this week when I've been eating 1900-2500 calories per day and my norm is more like 1800.

[gopintos]

I have a feeling that potatoes will become a prominent factor in Paleo/Primal Blueprint over the next few years as new editions are written.

I spent the last few days with Jack LaLanne and Paul Jaminet...well, their books anyhow.

In Jack's last book, Live Young Forever, which he wrote a year or so before he died at age 96. In the beginning, he says something like, 'don't just skim this book, read it carefully, these are my thoughts on health and fitness from observing people for 95 years.' Besides a grueling workout regimine he kept til the end, he ate whole food and didn't compromise. He ate grains, but not flour. He ate potatoes, but not with butter and sour cream. I don't think he mentioned carb-fat-protein in the whole book, which was a breath of fresh air!

In Paul Jaminet's new Perfect Health Diet, with an intro by Mark Sisson, he recommends everyone eat 1-2 pounds of potato, sweet potato, rice, plantain, or cassava, AND 1-2 pounds of veggies/fruit, AND 1 pound of meat. His DO NOT EAT list is short...vegetable oil, grains, beans, and sugar. Everything else is allowed to some extent.

Since rice is a grain, I'm surprised it made his safe starch list, but at any rate, I think we are being steered toward a diet that is 1/3 starch based. Notice I didn't say 'carb based', but starch based.

I am leery of rice, and eat it sparingly. I think sweet potatoes and potatoes will be the new "Big Ass Salad" of the PB future.

In his intro to Perfect Health Diet, Mark Sisson says "I am a generalist, Paul Jaminet is a scientist". I think you guys might be ahead of the game if you get a copy and read it.

When discussing keto and low carb diets, Paul Jaminet still wants us to eat potatoes and rice while on these diets. There is 'stuff' in potatoes, sweet potatoes, etc... that is vitally important to our health. It's way bigger than glycogen and insulin.

I havent read Live Young Forever, but I did buy the PHD the day it came out. I enjoyed it and Mark's forward. Those are my notes also. Up to 1lb, 600 total calories with 400 from starch, 200 from fruit. All the veggies you want, those don't count. Then he gets into more specifics also, like eggs, liver, salmon, etc but what Otzi mentioned are the rough basics. Up to 1lb starch, up to 1lb fruit, up to 1lb meat. And this is all "tweaked" for lack of a better word according to your goals. He has recommendations if you are more active, and other recommendations if your goal is for weight loss.

And this is how it all starts. I am sure PB started as a fad to some. I am sure some STILL call it a fad. I am sure it was and still will be a fad to some others, especially those that don't tweak and just say, well it's not working for me. Yes maybe they weren't doing some part of it right, or too much 20% or whatever. But they might have been able to tweak a little and make it fit their lifestyle rather than calling it a Fad and giving up.

[sbhikes]

With the potato thing I see some of yo-yo dieting. I suspect that yo-yo dieting is what got a lot of us to an unhealthy state, or at least set the ball in motion. I think everybody is way too hung up on macro-nutrients. Potatoes aren't magic. Fat isn't magic. Yesterday I ate a grain-based bar (Journey bar, pretty unique), a persimmons, 6 huge dried figs, half a bar of chocolate, half a huge sweet potato, a carrot and a half, some nuts and a bunch of non-carby things including lots of butter, pork fat and goat fat. Was that a miracle for my body? Did I go out and preach to everybody they should eat like this? Did I sit in agony with myself because I ate fat with those sweet things or wasn't low carb? No. It was just another day like any other. Got a little sunshine, went for a hike, rested and relaxed, got enough sleep, managed not to drink too much coffee, didn't spend any money. A pretty good day.

[otzi]

With the potato thing I see some of yo-yo dieting. I suspect that yo-yo dieting is what got a lot of us to an unhealthy state, or at least set the ball in motion.

Yo-yo dieting within a narrow band of 5-10lbs is probably a very healthy thing to do as long as you are eating good, primal food. Sometimes you overeat for an extended period, either by accident or design, as in muscle bulking.

Yo-yo dieting in a 30 pound band and eating crap SAD foods is one of the most unhealthy things. When I was in the military, we had a once-a-year weigh-in. We'd starve, dehydrate, and sweat for a week just to get in under our max--my max allowed weight was 205lbs! Then we'd pig out on pizza and beer. 20 years of this pattern really screwed me over!

Now, I really like how I feel at 165lbs. My daily range is 163-168 depending on time of day etc... We had a house full of relatives and food everywhere for the last 2 weeks. I decided to eat some off-plan things just to see how my body would react--and it reacted like I thought it would, 10 pounds of bloated weight gain in about 7 days, I felt terrible, aching joints, headaches, gassy, sluggish...

Right now I'm on day 3 of all potatoes. I'm almost back to my starting weight and feeling great. I love the thought of being able to stay at an optimum/healthy weight instead of staying just under a maximum-allowed weight.