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Thread: The obesity asylum page 9

  1. #81
    primalcat's Avatar
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    So is that it, Gorbag? A Tolkien reference? Perhaps if you went by Legolas or Aragorn your post might have gone over better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    It's possibly a Tolkein reference. There's an Orc leader named Gorbag.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by primalcat View Post
    I understand you. I disagree. Taubes, for one, has used them effectively.
    I've seen Taubes use them. He used them exactly as I say they are used... as a rhetorical device for conveying a predetermined idea - his idea - to a resisting reader via mental judo... using the mental power of the reader so that she convinces herself of something she would otherwise resist.

    If he has ever used a thought experiment to actually expose an underlying truth about human physiology, one not already established by actual experiment, I'd love to see it.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by primalcat View Post
    So is that it, Gorbag? A Tolkien reference? Perhaps if you went by Legolas or Aragorn your post might have gone over better.
    Yes, I hate to admit it, but it is actually a personage from Tolkien! So, now when Owly has investigated and found my real identity, I am also going to change my avatar so everybody can see what a very suspect personage I am! Thank you for defending me anyway primalcat, seem like this thread took another direction that I planned...
    Last edited by Gorbag; 12-27-2012 at 05:12 PM.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    I would accept it as a thought experiment, if next to the obesity camp, one erects the camp with the same security measures for all the underweight people out there, all those hard-gainers who daily struggle to gain weight and just keep losing, who will get force-fed until they reach the average weight for their average height, and they will continue to be force-fed to maintain it.

    This way, the entire population will attain the average weight and there will be no extremes.



    For convenience, everyone who has achieved the perfect weight for their height will be dressed in a brown wrap and tights of a standard issue. I would also recommend veils for both genders. They will be released, but must weigh in monthly. If the weight drops or climbs as much as 5 lbs, they should be readmitted into a hungry or feeding camps....

    Won't that make for a happy, healthy scenario?
    This reminds me of a story I read in High School - Harrison Bergeron, where everybody's intellect is averaged by the governments standards, except you know - the government. Just Saying.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Him View Post
    Again: This is not a problem domain to which thought experiments are suited.
    Yes

    I have no clue what point OP is trying to make with this hypothetical situation anyway. Probably everyone would lose a lot of weight. And... ?

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjmc View Post
    Yes

    I have no clue what point OP is trying to make with this hypothetical situation anyway. Probably everyone would lose a lot of weight. And... ?
    Yeah. He was probably trying to prove it's all about calories in/out.

    Sure, anybody can lose weight by starving. But what happens when you stop starving? Is the only goal to lose weight? Or could it possibly be that people want to restore a normally functioning appetite/hormone/hunger/satiety/exercise/energy system within themselves?

    Look at those potato people and their crash dieting. Sure, they are losing weight but I see at least one of them gaining some back and returning to the crash diet. Is that what we want for ourselves? Perpetual yo-yo dieting? Isn't that possibly how a lot of overweight people get messed up?

    Anyway, I found this series on That Paleo Guy to be pretty interesting for those who insist a calorie is just a calorie.
    Calorie Rants and Ketosis (part 1). THAT PALEO GUY
    Calorie Rants and Ketosis (part 2). THAT PALEO GUY
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 180 x 2. Current Deadlift: 230 x 2

  7. #87
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    I honestly think some people overreacted to the original post. To me it's something born of someone's vivid imagination, not necessarily a Nazi's wet dream.
    Although the premise is quite different, to me it is reminiscent of a novel I read a while back.The Long Walk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Does that mean that Mr. King is a deranged, sadistic child molester and murderer? I think not.
    Have you watched some of the crappy reality tv that's being offered to us here lately? Based on that, I can actually see a so called "reality" show - "Obesity Asylum" in the works.

  8. #88
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    Lets try our own thought experiment. Well, not really, but kinda.

    Actions have a cost and a benefit. Most people plan actions by attempting to maximize benefit and minimize cost. This is often referred to as having a high cost:benefit ratio. It is generally accepted that a solution with a high cost benefit ratio is worth consideration even if the costs are undesirable.

    For example, amputation has a very high cost. A cost which many patients would not choose to accept if given a choice. When the benefit is a reduced risk of cancer, the cost is questioned. When the benefit is an immediate preservation of life, it is not.

    So, our experiment: if you read this cost benefit analysis:

    "Let’s say we took one hundred morbidly obese persons, in the 400 lbs. + category and put them in a closed camp or asylum and let them do a modified fast of around 5 -700 calories per day for one whole year. No obligatory physical activities. Outside the camp we put armed guards to control that no illegal food will be smuggled into the camp! What would the output be after one year? how many would lose their weight, stop using their medications etc., or even get serious ill, eventually die due to complications of too little food? We know that at least one obese person has completed a water fast for one whole year, so why should not a very fat person survive one year on let’s say 3 daily cans of tuna in water, all the raw fibrous green vegetables he could eat, one cube of chicken broth, one multivitamin pill and a tablespoon of fish-oil and plenty of water, coffee and tea? After all, morbidly obese people carry so much food with them stored in their own bodyfat right?"

    Note that output is defined to include four categories: subjects who lose weight, cease use of medications, suffer serious illness, and those who die. Taken together this is an attempt to understand the benefits and costs of the described action.

    So, if you read that attempt at cost benefit analysis, do you:

    A) assume the person is interested in human metabolic processes?
    B) assume the person is interested in knowing the cost:benefit ratio of concentration fat camps for the love of pure knowledge?
    C) assume the person is considering the merits of forced weight loss as a public health measure?
    D) wonder why in hell he would ask such a question?

  9. #89
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    E.) vote to end the thread and let bygones be bygones rather than perform a halfassed online psychoanalysis of either the OP or the responders.

  10. #90
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    Fat camps exist, though probably not with a primal slant in terms of nutrition. People sign themselves up to get fixed for all kinds of things. I'm sure some of the fixes are perfectly valid, for some people. I don't think people would survive on such a drastic reduction in calories (assuming they were eating significantly more beforehand), or that amount of food. I imagine people would die well before losing "enough" weight (to be deemed medically healthy by most physicians).

    "Asylum" is an awkward word, and I think that's how some people got offended. While it is meant to indicate protection, it is more often associated (I think) with the horrors of behavioral health institutions/long term hospitalization that occurred for centuries (in Western culture, at least). The implication is that there is something sub-human about someone who has (a lot) of excess body fat.
    Journal on depression/anxiety
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