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Thread: Lyle McDonald's "Getting Rid of Stubborn Body Fat" protocol... page 3

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    I disagree, but it depends on intensity , duration of work-out and amount of fats! I have not said a word about any anabolic window here, it is fast simple carbs that the body needs most, together with b-vitamins for optimal recovery. If you don't get this in order fast enough, a chain reaction will start in your body and make you recover poorly, especially if you have trained hard and your glycogen levels are very low...
    I'm not saying it's optimal one way or the other. Just that, if you don't want to lose weight, you eat carbs before and/or during workout, fats after and protein before sleep. It minimizes fat and muscle loss. Therefore, that is a reason to eat fat post-workout.
    As far as anabolic windows go (and you don't have to mention them; I know where these theories come from and they all boil down to anabolic windows), nothing REALLY matters as long as you meet your needs within 24h. Some people do optimally if they carb-refeed, some if they eat fat, some if they pile in protein. Depends on your body, metabolism, type, duration and intensity of exercise and current goals (as well as what you generally eat, of course). But as long as you refuel in 24h, you're not doing any serious harm. Again, the human body is designed to survive almost starving. The anabolic window can be missed easily and have no effect (besides potential DOMS in some people). I tend to get DOMS when I focus on carbs and recover faster when I don't eat for a few hours after workout and then just eat 1/2-1 chicken, followed by more pre-bed. Some need more carbs to recover. Some would rather refuel on fat and eat their protein, carbs and vitamins later. Some feel like only eating one thing, then going to bed. It's down to whatever your body needs/asks for.
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  2. #22
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    No serious athlete that I have ever known will refuel with fat intra-workout or immediately post workout! It is all about pushing in fast acting glucose first, and then after one hour, or even better - 90 minutes after your workout - you can eat fat and proteins! Getting in fast acting carbs (and b-vitamins!) before fats is very important for optimal recovery if you train hard, just saying...
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    No serious athlete that I have ever known will refuel with fat intra-workout or immediately post workout! It is all about pushing in fast acting glucose first, and then after one hour, or even better - 90 minutes after your workout - you can eat fat and proteins! Getting in fast acting carbs (and b-vitamins!) before fats is very important for optimal recovery if you train hard, just saying...
    But if you're feeding carbs in during workout, then you haven't lost any glycogen. My technique is for maintaining your body comp. As I said, someone who wants to not lose any weight could safely use that method. Carbs before (if very intense and brief) or during (if not intense and prolonged). Then fats after. Then protein afore bed. Therefore: if you're trying to maintain, fats post-workout is plausible in that scenario.

    Most athletes (bar strength athletes and figure athletes who are bulking) want to lose as much fat as possible whilst building muscle. Any fat-loss is good, as far as they're concerned. Not all of us who are working out want to lose any more fat, though.
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  4. #24
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    For example, after my workouts I eat fuck-all for a few hours.
    I've tried forcing carbs and protein in post-workout. I lost 2kg in one month, although I was trying to bulk. It just kills my appetite and I can't get over 3000kcal/day.
    Now I just leave it, wait a few hours until I'm hungry, eat what I feel like (chicken, usually) and then eat more later, and later. The carb content is going up, but I barely touch them in the five hours after my workout. Don't feel like it and it clearly didn't work. It just made me drop weight.
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    I'd apologize, but...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Why would anybody consume dietary fat post-workout, since it slows down aborbtion of nutritions when the body need them urgently for recovery...
    you either missed an "s" or added a "b" depending on what you were aiming for

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Well, I can tell for sure that it becomes far more difficult to shed fat below 8 % without losing a considerable amount of lean tissue!
    How can you tell? Do you have any scientific evidence to back it up?

    How about anecdotal evidence? Anecdotal evidence is good enough for me. However, the problem with that is what I have discussed about glycogen levels. What I have seen and experienced is that it is A LOT easier to maintain muscle and strength when you are already lean and not cutting. And when I say that, a short cut doesn't really make much of a difference; it's the long cuts that make it hard.

    The answer why really is quite simple. It isn't the calorie deficit that causes the muscle loss. The problem is the loss of energy over time. Cut calories and you lose energy to a certain extent. If you have less energy you can't train as hard or heavy and you'll eventually lose strength and possibly some muscle mass as a result over time. That's why long cuts suck.

    However, even if there was some truth to that, which I doubt, it doesn't change the requirements for achieving one's goals. If it's harder it's harder and that's just life. Deal with it and do it right instead of letting your head spin over details that don't even matter.

    Do you think pro athletes do that? If you've met them or trained with any of them, you'd realize that the way they do things is A LOT different than how they portray things to be in the magazines. They know that simple routines and diets work, and they also know that drugs work as well. They don't take supplements that you'd see in a store because they know it doesn't work. They take drugs instead because they know that drugs work. That's how they do it. They do a simple diet and work hard and if that doesn't work good enough, they take drugs and that works. All the other ideas about magical supplements or new and improved routines is all nonsense, completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Stubborn body fat depends on various factors such as gender, age, genetic etc., so if you are a 50 years old male then the stubborn body fat may start at 12 -13 % and for a younger male at 8-9 % depending on genetics and individual factors.
    Proof? Studies?

    The only factor I can think of is testosterone. That'd make it hard to maintain muscle as good. That's for sure. But the problem isn't the fat. The fat should come off with ease because that's just how the body works. But the muscle will be harder to maintain because of the lack of hormones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    You sound like a younger guy and going down to 8 % should usually not be too difficult then, but you would not be considered as "Ripped" by any fitness standard at that level...
    I'm 35 years old and effortlessly maintain that all year round. This wasn't always the case; I used to weigh over 100 kg and was nearly 30% body fat. The only real reason why by body fat isn't any lower is because I haven't taken the steps necessary to get that low.

    And the reality is that where I live right now I see A LOT of people that are much leaner than me. It isn't uncommon to see some guy who's probably around 3% body fat. And I'm sure the ONLY reason why they're that lean is because they don't make enough money on their jobs to eat anything much more than fish, rice, and bananas. That's just the way it is here, most people are dirt poor.

    You want to know the REAL reason why it's So HARD to get that lean in modernized countries? I think the answer is pretty straight forward. It's because food of all sorts is available in abundance and it's cheap enough for most people to afford, even people who are thought to be poor. The hard part is simply putting the fork down, a phenomenon that doesn't happen in countries where people can barely afford enough to eat at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Personally, at the age of almost 51, I was around 8% a few months ago, right now I guess I dwell around 9-10 % of body fat...
    Great!!! Being fat sucks!!! I hated it!!! Being lean is much better!!! I even wish I could push myself to drop down a little bit further, but I'm a bit lazy about it.

    Interesting thing is, I lost A LOT of weight (almost 10 kg) a few months ago when I was sick and could barely eat for a week. Some was fat. But most of it came back when I got better. Clearly most was water. That really can play tricks on you!!!

    PS.
    If you REALLY think it's that hard to get lean when you're older, take a look at photos of Clarence Bass. He's done photo shoots every 5 years or so of him being ripped to the bone, and he's done it all the way up into his older years, he's just got done doing one at 75 years old and wrote a new book.

    Realize that if you are wrong, then that's a good thing. And the reason why is because it means you can succeed and do good if you want to.

    I had a similar realization when I was a 100 kg fat slob. I thought it was genetics and that I was doomed to be "cubby" for life. Over the years I realized I was wrong about EVERYTHING!!! It wasn't genetics. I wasn't chubby either, I was obese. It was EASY to lose the weight, not hard, because I found the right strategies. And yes, I could do it and so I did.
    Last edited by Ripped; 09-08-2013 at 12:40 AM.

  7. #27
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    In reality it is VERY dangerous to purposely maintain a super lean state well into your golden years. Fat isn't always a bad thing. In the aged its a buffer to disease. Those who are too lean may very well be one significant injury or illness away from death. That fat is energy stores... not just for those 16 hours your IF'ing.... but for when you are ill or injured as well.

    In fact I'm 35 and sit at round 15%. I'm not interested in going any leaner even right now. For what? To see my abs? Who gives a shit. Will it make me healthier or perform better.... can I get a Hell no! So screw it IMO. Oh, and you live in a place its not uncommon to see guys walking around at 3%BF ... A bunch of em? Ah, bullshit. You live in fantasy land, or on a bodybuilding stage for the couple hours guys reach that level.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 09-08-2013 at 07:18 AM.

  8. #28
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    Yep that is it alright, calories in and calories out. You would be better off with Dr K's cold thermogenisis, at least you wouldn't cause permanent damage. Are we really back to "better to look good, than feel good" ?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    you either missed an "s" or added a "b" depending on what you were aiming for
    My English is sloppy and I suck in grammar and orthography, so beware! Except from that; I am always right in what I am trying to say…
    Whoever fights trolls should see to it that in the process he does not become a troll - for when you gaze long enough into the computer screen, the computer screen will gaze back into you!
    - Gorbag Nietzsche

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    In reality it is VERY dangerous to purposely maintain a super lean state well into your golden years. Fat isn't always a bad thing. In the aged its a buffer to disease. Those who are too lean may very well be one significant injury or illness away from death. That fat is energy stores... not just for those 16 hours your IF'ing.... but for when you are ill or injured as well.

    In fact I'm 35 and sit at round 15%. I'm not interested in going any leaner even right now. For what? To see my abs? Who gives a shit. Will it make me healthier or perform better.... can I get a Hell no! So screw it IMO. Oh, and you live in a place its not uncommon to see guys walking around at 3%BF ... A bunch of em? Ah, bullshit. You live in fantasy land, or on a bodybuilding stage for the couple hours guys reach that level.
    I think that being around 8 - 12 % of bodyfat is very healthy for older guys, and at the level you have more than enough bodyfat to use in a emergency. For me it is not about seing abs, but because I feel more energetic and my libido is even better at that level, than at a higher bodyfat...
    Whoever fights trolls should see to it that in the process he does not become a troll - for when you gaze long enough into the computer screen, the computer screen will gaze back into you!
    - Gorbag Nietzsche

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