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Thread: Lyle McDonald's "Getting Rid of Stubborn Body Fat" protocol... page 2

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripped View Post
    Cut calories and the fat comes off. It really is that simple.
    Yes, I agree with your main points, but stubborn body fat can be a bit tricky for many people, and this is a protocol meant to save muscles while stripping off the last pound(s) of fat...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    stubborn body fat can be a bit tricky for many people
    It surely is tricky if you are confused about what to do. And it's easy to be confused these days because of all the dogma that's put out there. The more confused someone is about what to do, the more tricky it's going to be, because they're attention will go away from what is tried and true and more towards nonsensical things that don't even work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    this is a protocol meant to save muscles while stripping off the last pound(s) of fat...
    Studies have shown that regular weight lifting preserves muscle mass while in a calorie deficit.

    With that being said, it doesn't matter if you have 50 lbs of extra fat on you or 5 lbs of extra fat on you, the requirements for fat loss in each case are still going to be the same.

    What do you think will work better for muscle preservation during a calorie deficit? Lifting weights as heavy as possible? Or spending an our on the treadmill? Guess what? Studies actually show that fat loss is greater with athletes who weight train as opposed to doing aerobics.

  3. #13
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    If you're having to suffer all that to lose some small amount of fat...
    -You probably don't need to lose it.
    -You're putting vanity before health.
    -It WILL come back as soon as it can.

    This lifestyle is primarily about health, not about getting that 'beach body' in any way possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripped View Post
    Studies have shown that regular weight lifting preserves muscle mass while in a calorie deficit.

    With that being said, it doesn't matter if you have 50 lbs of extra fat on you or 5 lbs of extra fat on you, the requirements for fat loss in each case are still going to be the same.

    What do you think will work better for muscle preservation during a calorie deficit? Lifting weights as heavy as possible? Or spending an our on the treadmill? Guess what? Studies actually show that fat loss is greater with athletes who weight train as opposed to doing aerobics.
    Well sprinting or high intensity cardio followed by steady state cardio is very effective if used right, and you are plain wrong that the last 5 pound of fat comes off as easy as when you are starting out with 50 pound surplus fat. When getting lean with little fat the body will usually prefer to get energy from muscles/organs and keep the stubborn fat. Lifting weights is not always enough for most people when leaning out, thats my experience anyway...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Well sprinting or high intensity cardio followed by steady state cardio is very effective if used right, and you are plain wrong that the last 5 pound of fat comes off as easy as when you are starting out with 50 pound surplus fat. When getting lean with little fat the body will usually prefer to get energy from muscles/organs and keep the stubborn fat. Lifting weights is not always enough for most people when leaning out, thats my experience anyway...
    How lean have you gotten?

    The hardest part for me has simply been mental. I have gotten down to say 8% and it takes a lot of effort to get there. When I say that, I just mean diet wise. I know I can take it further, but I just don't like to do what would be required to get there. It takes dedication. When you know that, it's simply a matter of do or don't.

    As for the difference in say 5 lbs compared to 50 lbs, the only real difference that I am aware of is the fact that your metabolism is higher when you are fatter, because fat requires energy. So for that reason, you can lose weight with higher calories when you already have more fat. The lighter weight you are, the lower your metabolism, and the lower your metabolism the lower your calories have to be in order to lose weight. And that just plain old sucks!!!

    As for your comments about the body going for muscle instead, I've never seen any study that would prove it. A lot of people say it. There is a lot of fear about muscle loss. But it's the similar dogma such as the requirement for eating 6 small meals per day, eating tons of protein, etc.. It's all dogma because once you look at the actual studies, you find that they are telling a different story.

    In rusty moore's writings, he discusses a military experiment that was done where the subjects were put on severe calorie restriction as well as rigorous training and burning up A LOT of calories for I think 8 weeks if I recall correctly. Of all the subjects, the only ones that lost muscle were the ones that started the experiment at around 5%, but even for them it took a handful of weeks before such occurred. In other words, their bodies didn't go after the muscle until all of their storage (not essential) fat was gone.

    So what does all that mean? Unless you've already got an incredible six pack, you really have no worries for muscle loss, as long as you lift weights regularly. And in such a case, where do you really have room for improvement anyways?

    Also realize that there is a lot that goes on with glycogen. If you cut calories and exercise a lot, your glycogen stores will be low, even if you didn't lose any muscle at all. Since glycogen gets stored in the muscles, less glycogen makes the muscles flat and smaller, at least temporarily. The result is an appearance of muscle loss with different testing methods such as calipers, bioelectrical impedance, and underwater weighing. This would clearly result in a false impression of muscle loss. Another problem that occurs with lowered glycogen is lowered energy levels, that which would also clearly give a false impression of strength and muscle loss, meanwhile the reality is that such was only temporary strength loss due to lack of energy.

    Either way, if someone doesn't know that, all this extra theory only serves to keep people confused and guessing, looking for the next product or book. Lift weights to be big and strong. Cut calories and/or increase exercise to get the fat to go away. Such has always worked and it always will. And the actual studies support that, not the dogma that's typically touted.
    Last edited by Ripped; 09-07-2013 at 09:08 AM.

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    Are we to infer from Lyle's recommendation that consuming dietary fat post-workout (butter coffee for example) will stop or hinder lipolysis?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripped View Post
    How lean have you gotten?

    The hardest part for me has simply been mental. I have gotten down to say 8% and it takes a lot of effort to get there. When I say that, I just mean diet wise. I know I can take it further, but I just don't like to do what would be required to get there. It takes dedication. When you know that, it's simply a matter of do or don't.
    Well, I can tell for sure that it becomes far more difficult to shed fat below 8 % without losing a considerable amount of lean tissue! Stubborn body fat depends on various factors such as gender, age, genetic etc., so if you are a 50 years old male then the stubborn body fat may start at 12 -13 % and for a younger male at 8-9 % depending on genetics and individual factors. You sound like a younger guy and going down to 8 % should usually not be too difficult then, but you would not be considered as "Ripped" by any fitness standard at that level...

    Personally, at the age of almost 51, I was around 8% a few months ago, right now I guess I dwell around 9-10 % of body fat...
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegasvics View Post
    Are we to infer from Lyle's recommendation that consuming dietary fat post-workout (butter coffee for example) will stop or hinder lipolysis?
    Why would anybody consume dietary fat post-workout, since it slows down aborbtion of nutritions when the body need them urgently for recovery...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Why would anybody consume dietary fat post-workout, since it slows down aborbtion of nutritions when the body need them urgently for recovery...
    1: Calorie-replacement. Eat carbs during long exercise (walking, jogging, cardio-lifting) and fat afterwards to minimize weight loss.
    2: Your body can recycle pretty much all nutrients in it. Missing the 30-minute-anabolic-window won't kill you. The human body is designed to survive near-starvation.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kochin View Post
    1: Calorie-replacement. Eat carbs during long exercise (walking, jogging, cardio-lifting) and fat afterwards to minimize weight loss.
    2: Your body can recycle pretty much all nutrients in it. Missing the 30-minute-anabolic-window won't kill you. The human body is designed to survive near-starvation.
    I disagree, but it depends on intensity , duration of work-out and amount of fats! I have not said a word about any anabolic window here, it is fast simple carbs that the body needs most, together with b-vitamins for optimal recovery. If you don't get this in order fast enough, a chain reaction will start in your body and make you recover poorly, especially if you have trained hard and your glycogen levels are very low...
    Whoever fights trolls should see to it that in the process he does not become a troll - for when you gaze long enough into the computer screen, the computer screen will gaze back into you!
    - Gorbag Nietzsche

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