Primal diet - Pros and Cons? page 17

[Derpamix]

studies have shown that tin foil hats AMPLIFY government control rays

you're playing right into their hands

Oh god, no wonder I've been being followed lately... ;_;

[Derpamix]

Why would any scientist or researcher do anything if not for the money. It just depends on who is going to pay them more for what they have to say.

This is true, but to blantantly misrepresent scientific evidence should be criminal.

[canuck416]

When I was eating low carb/high fat, when I was active I was often FORCING myself to go to the gym and take long walks because I knew I should. But sometimes I didn't even have the energy to get off the couch to make my meals.

Now that I'm eating high carb, I do hot yoga 5x/week, do weights at the gym 2x/week, and try to take walks when I have the time. However, the big difference is that now I never feel like I'm forcing myself to move around, i have the energy and I don't feel completely depleted afterward. Likely, I have
more spontaneous activity now, like I'll spontaneous do a sprint from my car to a store or have a dance party while I'm washing dishes; this increase in activity is difficult to quantify.

No potato chips! My golden rules are: no gluten, no dairy, no soy/legumes, no HFCS, no omega 6 crap oils. As a result, it is almost impossible to ever eat most candy, junk food, processed food, etc... I use organic cane sugar and some honey.

In a typical day, I might eat something like this:

Breakfast:
3 rice cakes with jam (or gluten-free oatmeal with coconut milk, raisins, and 2 spoons of brown sugar)
1 spoonful of raw, local honey
1 Coffee or Tea with 2 spoons sugar

Lunch:
Pasta or Rice Dish (100-120 grams of either, dry, which comes to about 80-100 grams of carbs)

Dinner:
Boiled/Baked peeled potatoes
Some type of meat or fish

*I don't eat the same thing everyday. Some days I eat a lot of fruit, some days I eat more low-fiber vegetables in the form of squashes, onion, peppers. Some days I have liver or eggs or a can of sardines. Somedays I'm less hungry and might skip a meal.

When I first switched to this macro breakdown, I made it a point to keep my calories consistently high (at least 2,000) so I could try to reset myself. At first I gained a few pounds, but they eventually disappeared without any intervention.

When I had been eating lower calorie/low carb for a while, I noticed that the longer I did this, the more easily my body stored fat at lower and lower calorie levels. The more I decreased my calorie levels, the less energy I had and the less active I was. Having to measure everything on a scale really made me hyperaware of every calorie, and I really couldn't relax and enjoy my food because I was always trying to measure and limit it. At one point I couldn't eat over something like 1,200 without starting to gain fat, which was the breaking point for me.

Now, I never think about calories, and I sometimes try to add some extra sugar or a spoon of coconut oil somewhere during the day if I'm worried my calories are too low for the day, because my appetite is actually much lower now than it used to be on primal.

Great, thanks for the overview. Interesting that you don't have any protein with breakfast, personally that would probably cause a bit of blood sugar crash for me later in the morning, especially if I had it with coffee. I am assuming the pasta is gluten free based on your no-gluten philosopy. It actually kind of sounds like Paleo, or what I think of as Paleo, which is basically just avoiding, grains, soy, HFC, legumes, omega 6 oils and eating organic etc. The bottom line is you are feeling great and you are getting the body physiology results you want so congratulations.

[zoebird]

I agree it can be a "wide open" system. To be wide open it needs to focus less on the fat.

You are confusing things.

Paleo is an idea, and doesn't have individual agency to promote anything.

Simple, the idea of paleo/primal *is* a wide-open system as described. It asserts: don't eat neolithic foods. That's it, really.

Different groups within this broad idea, then, have their own take. Some are high fat. Some are low fat. Carbs balance based on this. That is all. Simple.

It's human beings who are practicing paleo who have these ideas. These people might focus on more fat or less fat (and then the carbs balancing that depending upon which way they go). They might be more strict paleo (no dairy, no grains) or less strict paleo (some grains, but no gluten, and some dairy).

But they are not -- no matter how large the group -- the idea of paleo. They are people who are applying the idea of paleo to the macronutrient profiles that they feel are appropriate for them, and advocate that to others.

If you actually look at it broadly, you can see that this is so.

And, in my case, basic -- and by that I mean very basic -- primal blueprint works really well. It is technically high fat the way that I do it (more than 40%), which technically makes me low carb, but I'm certainly not missing anything emotionally or healthy wise, etc.

[zoebird]

Breakfast:
3 rice cakes with jam (or gluten-free oatmeal with coconut milk, raisins, and 2 spoons of brown sugar)
1 spoonful of raw, local honey
1 Coffee or Tea with 2 spoons sugar


I would be fine on this, except without the sugar. I've always been sugar sensitive (and I dont' have much of a sweet tooth, either), and I would also increase my nutrients here by choosing nutrient rich source of carb/sugar. There aren't a lot of nutrients in brown or white sugar. Calories, yes.

Alternatively, I'd have the oatmeal with some fresh, seasonal fruit with the raisins.

Lunch:
Pasta or Rice Dish (100-120 grams of either, dry, which comes to about 80-100 grams of carbs)


I love a good thai curry with some nicely cooked rice or a rice noodle. I think this is well within normal realms of what we do here (PB) anyway. For me, it would need to be balanced with veg and meats. When I do the noodles, it's in a soup. I love broth!

Dinner:
Boiled/Baked peeled potatoes
Some type of meat or fish


I eat veg -- usually fibrous veg. Yesterday it was steak and asparagus. Today, it's likely to be a BAS asian-style with some smoked fish (locally caught and smoked).

I have potatoes (white or sweet) about once a week because it's what works for me. Though, it's summer, so I'm having it a lot less.

*I don't eat the same thing everyday. Some days I eat a lot of fruit, some days I eat more low-fiber vegetables in the form of squashes, onion, peppers. Some days I have liver or eggs or a can of sardines. Somedays I'm less hungry and might skip a meal.

Assumed.

I would say that, overall, your diet fits comfortably within paleo, and PB really.

For me, it's probably my preference for non-starchy veg (these always make me pudgy, feel bloated, and are unsatisfying), for fruit (I just had some fresh nectarines with brekkie), and lean meats that makes this process easily.

I'm not worried about much of anything -- calories, activity levels, sleep. I find that I eat fewer calories than I did before. I find I need less sleep than before and have more energy, that I'm vibrant and healthy and happy. I also do yoga daily (6 days vigorous, one day restorative), and of course Mon-Sat I'm also teaching yoga classes (with hands on assisting which is a lot of lifting). And then there's all of the walking that I do, and the roller skating and the once-a-month parkour that I get to squeak in now and again. LOL

It's a lot of fun, really. I haven't gained any weight (unless i start over-eating due to stress, but you know what is interesting? since doing IF, it seems physiologically impossible for me to stress eat. It's bizarre! I'd gotten through most of the mental work of it. . . but even when I'm stressed and I think "yeah, cookies!" the other side of my goes and says "you couldn't put any more food in here." LOL So bizarre!).

I just feel good. But I wouldn't say that what you are doing is "wrong" -- I question what nutrition the sugar brings you, and if there's a more nutritious way to get the sugar that you want with other nutrients (ie, bananas, pears, apples, berries, etc etc etc).

[zoebird]

As for the evolutionary perspective. It seems pretty bunk to begin with. We live here and now, nothing at all like our ancestors from 100,000 years ago or even 10,000 years ago. If anything its our last two or three generations that would have the greatest impact on our health. Maybe our DNA is not muched changed but what about our gut microbes, our tastes, even our thoughts. We cant replacate paleo man and maybe it would not even be beneficial to try. There is plenty of evidence to show that as a species we are bigger, stronger, live longer and are smarter then our ancestors even of a few hundred years ago. Maybe it is the excess calories and availability to year round foods that is the driving factor?

The problem with this statement is that we are not trying to reenact everything. Instead, what we do have is evidence that our bodies have not evolved much since the paleolithic era, and as such, the foods available during that era are healthiest for us.

This food diversity is MASSIVE. Diets very from high carb to low carb depending upon what is available in the given location of the paleolithic peoples.

And before anyone says it, yes there is a epidemic of disease, but im not talking about a diet of frankenfoods and seed oils but real foods, high in calories, fats, carbs and protein. Everyone here knows what im saying even if they want to scream bullshit and point to a SAD. (I hate that term, it implys that anyone not on a certain diet is eating horribly and has multiple diseases.)

Personally, I do not consider refined, white/brown sugar to be a healthy, natural food. It is a highly processed, non-nutritious (but definitely caloric) food.

I do consume it out of pleasure as part of living in the modern world and because it is a joy. I consider it a pleasure, but not a regular part of my diet. Similarly, paleo man would go to great lengths to get honey -- which was considered a sweet treat, an occasional joy (and people died getting it in the old fashioned way. I've watched some documentaries of traditional honey gathering. Truly fascinating!).

I guess what im saying is that just because something isnt paleo or doesnt jive with how a person from that era would do things does not automatically mean it is unhealthy in the short or even long term (example, eating high amounts of sugar.). Context always matters.

We know that eating high amounts of sugar (refined) do lead to health problems -- tooth decay is probably the most risky and obvious that I can think of.

Loosing one's teeth is a big problem, and while we might say that we have methods of managing it in our modern world (brushing teeth, etc), the reality is that the low-sugar diets lead to much healthier teeth.

Here, it's quite common for families to have a lot of sugar in their diets -- children receiving a lot of it. That being said, people also do a lot of very healthy foods because things are grown here really nicely (a lot are organic but not certified due to the expense/difficulty, pasture raised eggs/meats/dairy, etc. . .).

My son, who gets very little sugar compared to other children, eating paleo and such, has far better teeth than most of his counterparts. Our dentist said that he was truly amazed at how healthy DS's teeth are at his age, as he is used to seeing other children his age with terrible teeth. While we know that genetics can play a part in this, the dentist asserted that it is the amount of sugar that most people eat these days -- even just unknowingly -- that is affecting their dental/oral health.

My son has had zero cavities, but I know many children his age who have already had teeth removed and/or filled due to tooth decay. These are children who eat *mostly* healthy nutritious foods but do have sugar every day (white sugar/brown sugar).

My son doesn't, and I think it makes a difference.

[Derpamix]

We know that eating high amounts of sugar (refined) do lead to health problems -- tooth decay is probably the most risky and obvious that I can think of.

What makes you so sure it leads to health problems? Malnutrition causes tooth decay, not sugar. By mechanism, sugar, through increasing thyroid health would be protective of teeth.

Your child probably consumes a much more nutritionally dense diet than most kids his age, simply because you likely cook meals for him instead of throwing hot pockets in the microwave. Has nothing to do with sugar, that's another myth that has been dispelled time and time again.

[Neckhammer]

I know there is a Peat faction here (Best, Zach, and Derp), but I really don't think it takes all that many studies to say "hey maybe something that has to go through all this.....

Sugarcane

Sugarcane (Saccharum spp.) is a perennial grass in the family Poaceae. It is cultivated in tropical and sub-tropical regions for the sucrose that is found in its stems. It requires a frost-free climate with sufficient rainfall during the growing season to make full use of the plant's great growth potential. The crop is harvested mechanically or by hand, chopped into lengths and conveyed rapidly to the processing plant. Here it is either milled and the juice extracted with water or the sugar is extracted by diffusion. The juice is then clarified with lime and heated to kill enzymes. The resulting thin syrup is concentrated in a series of evaporators after which further water is removed by evaporation in vacuum containers. The resulting supersaturated solution is seeded with sugar crystals and the sugar crystallizes out, is separated from the fluid and dried. Molasses is a by-product of the process and the fibre from the stems, known as bagasse, is burned to provide energy for the sugar extraction process. The crystals of raw sugar have a sticky brown coating and can either be used as they are or can be bleached by sulphur dioxide or treated in a carbonatation process to produce a whiter product.[40]

Refining

Cane sugar requires further processing to provide the free-flowing white table sugar required by the consumer. The sugar may be transported in bulk to the country where it will be used and the refining process often takes place there. The first stage is known as affination and involves immersing the sugar crystals in a concentrated syrup which softens and removes the sticky brown coating without dissolving them. The crystals are then separated from the liquor and dissolved in water. The resulting syrup is either treated by a carbonatation or a phosphatation process. Both involve the precipitation of a fine solid in the syrup and when this is filtered out, a lot of the impurities are removed at the same time. Removal of colour is achieved by either using a granular activated carbon or an ion-exchange resin. The sugar syrup is concentrated by boiling and then cooled and seeded with sugar crystals causing the sugar to crystallize out. The liquor is spun in a centrifuge and the white crystals are dried in hot air, ready to be packaged or used. The surplus liquor is made into refiners' molasses.[42] The International Commission for Uniform Methods of Sugar Analysis sets standards for the measurement of the purity of refined sugar, known as ICUMSA numbers; lower numbers indicate a higher level of purity in the refined sugar.[43]

.....isn't something I should be eating." Basically kill and strip it of everything that made it a food in the first place.

Seriously, if you just eat things that don't come in a box that nixes the sugar in a refined state. I remember when I first read Peat back when I thought hey this is the SCD! (specific carbohydrate diet). But, then I realized its not quite. SCD is still utilizing real food like honey and fruit whereas Peat is all hyped up about sucrose.

[Derpamix]

Peat recommends fructose over sucrose, and considers sucrose medicinal and supplemental.

It's not about the sum total of available nutrients, sugar does a lot more than that.

[YogaBare]

You are confusing things.

Paleo is an idea, and doesn't have individual agency to promote anything.

Simple, the idea of paleo/primal *is* a wide-open system as described. It asserts: don't eat neolithic foods. That's it, really.

Different groups within this broad idea, then, have their own take. Some are high fat. Some are low fat. Carbs balance based on this. That is all. Simple.

It's human beings who are practicing paleo who have these ideas. These people might focus on more fat or less fat (and then the carbs balancing that depending upon which way they go). They might be more strict paleo (no dairy, no grains) or less strict paleo (some grains, but no gluten, and some dairy).

But they are not -- no matter how large the group -- the idea of paleo. They are people who are applying the idea of paleo to the macronutrient profiles that they feel are appropriate for them, and advocate that to others.

If you actually look at it broadly, you can see that this is so.

And, in my case, basic -- and by that I mean very basic -- primal blueprint works really well. It is technically high fat the way that I do it (more than 40%), which technically makes me low carb, but I'm certainly not missing anything emotionally or healthy wise, etc.

The whole point of this thread was that I was interested in honest, objective, overall perspectives on how Paleo was working for people. But what I am seeing is that when something is working for someone, they are more likely to tell others (who it's not working for) that they "don't understand" or are "doing it wrong".

Repeating that Paleo is not low carb does not make it so. Why do so many people come to it thinking that it is low carb? (Other than us all being wrong, of course). And then when we have difficutlies, we're told to "eat more fat"? These are individual experiences.

Anyway. I'm not saying this with animosity. I actually like and respect everyone on this forum and this is just splitting hairs. We're in agreement about the most important things - which is that refined food is bad.

Pros and cons, anyone?!