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Thread: Is a longterm Ketogenic Diet healthy? page 2

  1. #11
    MichaelA's Avatar
    MichaelA is offline Senior Member
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    Primal Fuel
    I'll answer you all with a quick question. This is regarding how much we need carbs in our lives and how much metabolism depends on it...

    How many Essential carbs we need?

    Now you get it?

  2. #12
    eva's Avatar
    eva
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    hmmm im a female and i think ive been in ketosis for the better part of 10 years. exactly as michaela said: theres no such thing as essential carbs.
    challenge yourself
    i blog here http://theprimalwoman.blogspot.com/

  3. #13
    jo's Avatar
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    I kind of agree with the idea that we evolved to live of mostly meat and so probably a ketogenic diet was normal. I don't think there is real research on this subject, but I know that ketogenic diets are used for children with epilepsy (in some cases) and these are presumably long term. The body is pretty good at letting us know when something is wrong. So long as you feel healthy and look good (by that I mean healthy) you are probably fine.

    I can't think of any reason hormone-wise why women would be different in this respect. Perhaps someone could enlighten me.

  4. #14
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    i dont know that their is a hormonal difference, i was just trying to put another view or option out there... what you say makes sense though. i guess we were basically always in a ketogenic state

  5. #15
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    Not enough studies done

    Just read this in wiki..
    "Long-term use of the ketogenic diet in children increases the risk of retarded growth, bone fractures and kidney stones.[7] " Found on: Ketogenic diet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

    I've been on the diet and have experienced the positive responses mentioned here also but I do have concerns for long term use as well. I am a newbie so there are many things I am still uninformed on but from my personal experiences and observations is that, yes some ancestors of ours had been on similar diets but there is a difference between survival and optimal health nutrition. They may have been healthy but is there a more optimal nutrition? The body is quite complex and was designed to survive and adapt so the fact our bodies make ketones etc doesnt really convince me that it is still optimal. Give the body equal amounts of fat and carbs, what will it use first? Does that mean carbs are preferred, i dont know.

    There are couple things mentioned in Marks book 21 day that raises concerns if this diet is actually optimal. Dont get me wrong, I am sold on the diet and use it daily except for post workout meals (granted I dont go ketosis completely) but so far I have to take it for what it is and is not a end all be all perfect nutrition plan for humans. Just so people know where I stand, i am a subsriber to Marks daily apple and think highly of this way of living. I think this diet will be a great answer to 90%+ people in today's glutton socities, especially also with the fact most people will not be on intense/taxing workout regimens.

    I am experiementing with keto/low carb variations and am thinking in my senior years may completely cross over like Mark is living. Wow, what an amazing physique. In my older years i wont be too concerned about optimal performance or workouts so it seems very appropriate.
    Last edited by wata77; 07-03-2013 at 03:40 PM.

  6. #16
    Knifegill's Avatar
    Knifegill is online now Senior Member
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    I play it safe by cycling through. I do keto (lots of coconut milk, coconut oil, tallow, bacon, eggs, other meats) for many days (sometimes just a few days, sometimes a week or longer), then hit a pile of fruit, good chocolate, etc. and carb up for a day or two. I try to semi-emulate natural/seasonal food availability. Not very precise, but my body responds well to it. For example, my property is currently carpeted and ornamented with vast sheets of wild edible berries and greens. I'm not going to avoid eating them just for the sake of ketosis, because the awesomeness of those foods is hard to deny - and I'm cheap. So it's likely that for the next few weeks I will eat a lot of berries every day, and cooked greens and wild teas every few days. But after that, when fall hits, more nuts and less berries, then by winter back to almost pure carnivore except for fermented things (kombucha and sauerkraut are my favorites) and, as always chocolate. It's possible to eat more chocolate than you might think and stay in ketosis, especially baker's unsweetened chocolate or raw whole cocoa beans. And between oysters, liver and eggs there's not much missing nutritionally.


    Turquoisepassion:
    Knifegill is christened to be high carb now!
    notontherug:
    the buttstuff...never interested.
    Tremendous worms of a swarthy nature pursue me across the sandy blank sky. I stop to think. What the devil AM I up to?!

    My pony picture thread http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82786.html

  7. #17
    counterpuncher's Avatar
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    It depends on how intense your workouts are.
    If you workout with lighter intensity, then yes, you can stay in ketosis forever.
    But if you exercise consistently with high intensity, then you will need carbs.
    For those of you that are thinking, "hey, I exercise intensely, and I'm in ketosis", my answer is: you may think that you exercise with high intensity, but in reality, you don't even come close.

  8. #18
    Knifegill's Avatar
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    I don't exercise intensely - for long. I do like sprints, and body-weight, and some heavy weights here and there. But not for long. I'm not battle-ready. I can walk for 12 hours easily, I can climb a tree easily, and I can outrun almost anybody - but to do something "fitness" like insanity or tough mudder, I'm out.


    Turquoisepassion:
    Knifegill is christened to be high carb now!
    notontherug:
    the buttstuff...never interested.
    Tremendous worms of a swarthy nature pursue me across the sandy blank sky. I stop to think. What the devil AM I up to?!

    My pony picture thread http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82786.html

  9. #19
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  10. #20
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    I think it's going to depend on how it makes you feel. I tend to eat low carb because my favorite foods originally had legs, wings, or gills, or came from those animals (cheese, yogurt, butter, etc.). That said, if someone offered me a version of eggplant parmesan that didn't have breadcrumbs in it, I'd scarf that puppy up happily. Same thing with healthy mashed potatoes. They just aren't foods I think to buy or make on a regular basis.

    There are some studies that show ill effects from long term keto. However for people who are controlling things like childhood or adult epilepsy (just one example), MS, etc., perhaps the ill effects of long term keto are the lesser of two evils.

    I tend to follow my gut (no pun intended) on issues like this. Especially since nutrition has become a fad, and the next great thing is merely ten years away. There are so many species of animals and plants on the planet that I don't think we were meant to restrict ourselves to just a handful of them for food. Within some fairly non-restrictive parameters, I eat what I want. If something new (or old) makes my clothes tight, or makes me crave unhealthy type over-eating, I'll know soon enough.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

    B*tch-lite

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