Ketosis Confusion page

[Lukey]

Hey there, I just have a few questions about ketosis if anybody could answer.

If the carbohydrate threshold for ketosis is around 50 grams, does that mean when you eat over 50 grams eg. 60, you will be temporarily out of ketosis and then back in? (I know 50 grams isn't the exact threshold but it's just an example for this question)

Or is it when you eat any carbohydrate you slip out of ketosis after you eat it, and eating 50 grams a day is a small amount so it won't happen often?

If anybody could answer these that would be great, or if somebody could post a link where this question is addressed. (Also note, I am not trying to lose weight, just curious about ketosis)

[primalrob]

i'm pretty sure the 50g is just a guidline; the actual amount of carbohydrate would depend on the person. but, basically, to stay in ketosis you need to be eating few enough carbs for your body to use an alternate fuel source to glucose. it's not just carbs you have to watch though. protein can be converted to glucose through gluconeogenesis, which can also knock you out of ketosis.
i wouldn't spend much time fretting over the specific numbers. if you want to burn fat by going low carb, fill up on high fat and moderate protein and let your carbs come mainly from veggies, and your body will get more efficient as using bodyfat stores for fuel.

[Lukey]

Yes I know all of that, I do know quite a bit about ketosis, I just need these specific questions answered. Thanks anyway.

[bluechip]

It is not linear. For several months I have been tracking my ketosis with a blood glucose meter and the ketostix (urine analysis). I found that at 50 carbs per day I don't get into ketosis. Around 30g total carbs per day (20 net carbs give or take) that I will maintain about 5-15 mg/dl of ketones. Any spikes and I fall out for 2 to 3 days. I have found that certain vitamins / supplements help both get into ketosis and maintain ketosis after a cheat. I also found that my carb ratio per total caloric intake impacts the speed at which I reach, accel, or fall out of ketosis. For example if I am eating very low carb and fast a couple meals a week, my ketone levels spike up. If I am eating low carb, but constantly at a high caloric / fat intake that I maintain a minimal amount of ketones.

[Lukey]

Are you sure you are measuring correctly? I've heard ketostix don't work after a while because the body gets better at using the ketones and not wasting them. I mean 50g of carbs is still even quite low, I've heard of people eating up to 100g of carbs and staying in ketosis. 50g of carbs is still only 10% of a 2000 calorie diet, so I think it would be impossible to fuel the body with that amount of energy, making ketosis inevitable.

[bluechip]

Are you sure you are measuring correctly? I've heard ketostix don't work after a while because the body gets better at using the ketones and not wasting them. I mean 50g of carbs is still even quite low, I've heard of people eating up to 100g of carbs and staying in ketosis. 50g of carbs is still only 10% of a 2000 calorie diet, so I think it would be impossible to fuel the body with that amount of energy, making ketosis inevitable.

I agree the ketostix are not very accurate. (I especially hate when the color is in between levels!) Anyway, I started to also use a glucose meter to track more accurately and that has helped greatly. Have you tried the Ketostix? They are fairly cheap, about $10 for 50, sometimes I find them at $10 for 100. You should give them a try. The problem is they have a zero color level which sometimes makes it difficult to read if you are at zero or five levels.

I think the macronutrient ratio makes a difference. But I also think ketosis is different for each person based on body type, etc. For example, I take on average 2 days to get my numbers to suggest I am in Ketosis, however a friend of mine who is a lot leaner will take 3 or 4 days to get into ketosis. (I don't know if that is normal or just him...) Women are also different, for example, my wife can get into ketosis in about a day.

For me personally, I have noticed that carbs from fiber don't hurt ketosis, unlike carbs from sugar. The jury is still out for me on starches (aka complex carbohydrates) ***This is where I think the answer is to the original question about carbs versus ketosis*** Quantity and type of carb versus ketosis level.

I am not the best example, but here is a breakdown of my macronutrienis differentts: [URL="http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread72430.html"]http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread72430.html[/URL

If I may, I am curious why you're interested in this information? If it's for understanding your body, I would suggest you start tracking your food intake and also ketone/glucose level.

[sbhikes]

I don't think the body works like a machine so that you can say yep, at 50 you've got ketosis but at 60 you don't. Your only way of really knowing is to use a blood ketone meter.

[Lukey]

I agree the ketostix are not very accurate. (I especially hate when the color is in between levels!) Anyway, I started to also use a glucose meter to track more accurately and that has helped greatly. Have you tried the Ketostix? They are fairly cheap, about $10 for 50, sometimes I find them at $10 for 100. You should give them a try. The problem is they have a zero color level which sometimes makes it difficult to read if you are at zero or five levels.

I think the macronutrient ratio makes a difference. But I also think ketosis is different for each person based on body type, etc. For example, I take on average 2 days to get my numbers to suggest I am in Ketosis, however a friend of mine who is a lot leaner will take 3 or 4 days to get into ketosis. (I don't know if that is normal or just him...) Women are also different, for example, my wife can get into ketosis in about a day.

For me personally, I have noticed that carbs from fiber don't hurt ketosis, unlike carbs from sugar. The jury is still out for me on starches (aka complex carbohydrates) ***This is where I think the answer is to the original question about carbs versus ketosis*** Quantity and type of carb versus ketosis level.

I am not the best example, but here is a breakdown of my macronutrienis differentts: [URL="http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread72430.html"]http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread72430.html[/URL

If I may, I am curious why you're interested in this information? If it's for understanding your body, I would suggest you start tracking your food intake and also ketone/glucose level.

Yea thanks, I am just curious. I do track my food intake but not ketone/blood glucose level.

[Lukey]

I don't think the body works like a machine so that you can say yep, at 50 you've got ketosis but at 60 you don't. Your only way of really knowing is to use a blood ketone meter.

Yea I agree, it was just an example to base the question on.

[Annlee]

If you want to understand ketosis, you should do 2 things, IMO:

1. track your macros and calories and keep data on your ketosis (blood meter, Ketostix, perceptions) - ketosis generally brings some mental/emotional changes which are observable
2. read both of Phinney and Volek's books

Ketosis doesn't happen like a light switch, and the appropriate levels of carb and protein vary from one individual to another. Note the time it takes to fully adapt to running on ketones: the initial adaptation takes at least 2 weeks. Re-adaptation after coming out of ketosis is probably variable, depending on how long and at what glucose levels a given individual departs ketosis; I have not seen any reports of studies of a re-adaptation period - so again you will have to determine that for yourself.

Ketostix are semi-accurate. If you really want to understand ketosis in your body, use a blood ketone meter.