The "Eat More (or Moar) Fat" January Challenge page 56

[Ayla2010]

Can anyone help with my macros question I posted earlier?

Sorry I am talking so much today

[marcadav]

First - I don't know what HCL is..........
Second - I'm on Armour and my thyroid is now slightly overcompensated, but the doc says as long as I feel good I can stay where I am. Apparently my thyroid is in a happy place now. Does that still mean I have thyroid issues?

Paleo Diet Challenges & Solutions II: It’s All About the Gut!
HCL...The Most Important Supplement Ever? | Poliquin Article

You are, I assume, considered to be a person that has hypothyroidism. You seem to be adequately treated. What my experience has taught me is that treatment can go waywire at any given time or look good on paper but still be causing/leaving issues. And, sometimes the body needs to have adequate thyroid hormones for a while, letting the body heal from the deficit, before it's ready to let go of weight.

Another thing to note-- overcompensation is often thought to have the symptom of quick, reasonless weight loss. For some people, however, it can lead to weight stall or gain.

Hang in there.

[Pebbles67]

Can anyone help with my macros question I posted earlier?

Sorry I am talking so much today

Can't find it. Busy thread. Please repeat.

[marcadav]

Paula,
I really hope they don't make those kids weigh though. I heard one of them say something about burning calories while exercising, and that is shit they make a kid think like that
.

I heard Jillian talk on another show. She said the kids would be doing this from home and not weighed. That the purpose was to teach them a healthy way to live in the real world.

[geostump]

I'm barely eating any veggies either. The most I had was the onions and peppers at dinner.

[Ayla2010]

Funny that hey, we are told eat shit loads of veg cos they are so good for you, but they just make me feel gross.

[Ayla2010]

Opps sorry, here you go

Have I got this right?
Is this OK? Aiming for 65 kg for now. I am 107.4 kg, and 158 cm tall.
Calories - 1600
Carbohydrates - 40g (10%)
Protein - 60g (15%)
Fat 133g (75%)

Do I need to change anything?

[GoJenGo]

As one who unfortunately lived in the "zone of misery" after a very long stint of ketosis (which was GREAT) for a while, Paleobird's original "Eat Moar Fat" thread brought about an epiphany for me. I was going too low on the fat and too high on the protein, which continually knocked me out of ketosis and left me feeling like utter crap. I think it's very similar to the info Chris posted from Peter Attia's site earlier, so apologies if it's totally redundant. Paleobird explains it well, herself:



"This post is inspired by a new forum member named Barbara who PMed me asking my advice about her weight loss situation. I was about to direct her to my two mega threads about calorie counting

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread24580.html
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread29501.html

when I realized that my thinking has really moved on from there recently with my experiments in nutritional ketosis.

When I first wanted to lose weight, before finding PB, I just "went low carb" and lost the first 30 easily. Then came The Dreaded Stall.
I found PB and was delighted with the whole concept. But then I became one of those fresh faced newbies with the "Why am I not losing weight?" questions. Great food but they scale wasn't moving.

The answer I kept getting over and over again was a resounding, "EAT MOAR FAT!" So I did. And gained weight.

Looking back, I see that this experience caused me to reject the whole high fat paradigm and embrace calorie counting instead. And that worked. I lost another 35 pounds and reached my goals.

Now, at a stable good weight I'm trying deep nutritional ketosis for the control of my seizures with less medication.
Details for those who are interested :http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread64225.html

I'm now finally "getting" what the forum pundits were saying about "EAT MOAR FAT!". They were right except that was a simplistic way to put it. If they had said, "Eat a higher proportion of your calories as fat while keeping your protein moderate and your carbs low AND your total calorie intake in check", that would have been perfect.

But everyone kept telling me that calories didn't matter and that my body would just wonderfully "know" when to stop eating and that I should just "listen" to my body. Um, my body had just recovered from cancer and chemo at the time. It was too confused to be "telling" me anything that made sense.

Note to newbies: Read the book first.

So I dialed back the fat, reduced calories and powered through on lean protein, lots of it. And it worked. So I'm not knocking that approach.

I just can't tell you how much better I feel, however, while in deep ketosis. I feel like leaping tall buildings.

So, no, I am not saying that calorie counting should be tossed. Just that the two approaches, the "EAT MOAR FAT!" Camp and the "Calories Count so Count Your Calories Camp" need to be synthesized into one. Ketosis is the key that brings them together.

No, you can't eat unlimited quantities of food, regardless of macros, and expect to lose weight. Reality doesn't work that way. But eating ketogenic macros consistently over time makes it soooo much easier to limit portion sizes. I have to really push myself to make sure to eat enough so as not to lose too much more.

I think where a lot of Primals go wrong is in embracing all those yummy primal meats so much that we overdo the protein portion of the equation and thereby knock ourselves out of ketosis. Then, still trying to hold down the carbs, we get stuck in what Dr. Peter Attia of The Eating Academy calls the "Zone of Misery", not enough carbs to run on glucose but too much protein to allow for efficient metabolism of fat. Stuck in the middle and generally feeling like crap.

It seems to me that many people who say, "I can't do low carbs. I tried it and felt awful" perhaps could have gotten out of that Zone of Misery by dialing back the protein a bit. Maybe a filet mignon instead of a porterhouse for dinner.

So, to Barbara and anyone else who wants to know "what works for weight loss", the answer is , "a lot of things can work including the lean protein, limited calorie approach that I took". If the question is what works while making you feel invincible, the answer is ketosis."

[Annlee]

Opps sorry, here you go

Have I got this right?
Is this OK? Aiming for 65 kg for now. I am 107.4 kg, and 158 cm tall.
Calories - 1600
Carbohydrates - 40g (10%)
Protein - 60g (15%)
Fat 133g (75%)

Do I need to change anything?

I take a slightly different approach. I know my goal weight (110 pounds/50kg). I have a desired bodyfat % (15% - I'm post menopausal). Ergo, my goal LBM = .85*50kg = 42.5kg. For any rule based on LBM, that's my number.

Phinney & Volek recommend .6 - 1.0 g protein/pound reference weight (goal weight). That for me would mean .6(110) - 110 g protein per day, or 66 - 100g/day. I have learned through experience that I need to be <40g carb/day to lose weight/feel right. And for me, the lower, the better. The rest is fat - and I eat to satisfaction, with the rest of the "dietary" fat coming from internal stores.

I seem to feel better and hit ketosis better closer to Dr. Jan Kwasniewski's rules:

1. Ideal weight in kg = (height in cm - 100) -- for me that's 55kg (121 pounds)
2. Daily protein at 1g/kg ideal weight, +/- 10% -- so for me, that's 55 +/- 5.5g
3. Daily carbs at .5g/kg (half the protein grams) -- so ~28 +/- 3g
4. The rest is fat. And the less fat I eat (I eat plenty), the more I "eat" from those internal stores.

I'm down to the last few pounds, so it's going to be slow ... but I'm at 129 now. When I got serious about losing weight, I was 186. I did the first part on sheer calorie counting (Discipline!! and lots of hunger). It got easier with low carb, and a LOT easier when I dropped the last grains.

Now I'm losing slowly but steadily with really lousy amounts of exercise. When I do get serious exercise, I bump my protein more towards Phinney & Volek values. When I'm just slogging away on the laptop all day and half the night, I use more the Kwasniewski values.

N=1 is your best bet.

[GoJenGo]

First - I don't know what HCL is..........
Second - I'm on Armour and my thyroid is now slightly overcompensated, but the doc says as long as I feel good I can stay where I am. Apparently my thyroid is in a happy place now. Does that still mean I have thyroid issues?

Honeybuns - I think you're on to something about the type of fat ............ cuz when I eat almond butter I bloat up! Thats why I stopped buying it for a short time - then I found it at Costco for a GREAT price and was hooked again. I need to just wave the white flag where the nut butter is concerned!

Tomi, I am right there with you on the nut and nut butter issue. Actually, that reaction is a pretty common complaint that I've seen mentioned by many on the forum, especially those with autoimmune issues. I have to keep them out of the house, because even knowing what they'll do to my guts doesn't keep me from attacking. They call my name, I swear.

Like you, I don't have a gallbladder and I don't have problems with most fats anymore. Early on, I took ox bile and HCL. I still take Now Super Enzymes, which I believe contain a little of both, along with other enzymes. I don't have those issues anymore as long as I stay away from those damn nuts.