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  1. #311
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    Just noticed that Biko left out the last step of letting it cool again before eating. It's cooking, freezing, cooking, cooling or just cooking, freezing, thawing, I think. Even higher RS would be produced by using fermentation: cooking, freezing, thawing, fermenting for days in a cool place like the fridge (such as fermented legumes like "pease porridge in the pot, nine days old" Everyday Life On A Shoestring: Food Waste Friday - Pease Pudding Hot, Pease Pudding Cold!, miso, natto, fermented red yeast rice, fermented potatoes Video: Fermented Potatoes | The Healthy Home Economist, fermented unripe plantain Using Unripe Plantain to Cure Stomach Ulcer, fermented hummus http://gnowfglins.com/2011/04/15/lacto-fermented-hummus, etc.).
    Last edited by Paleophil; 10-31-2013 at 04:14 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by tatertot View Post
    Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
    Notes I may point to:
    1) WARNING: beware of chronic very low carb diets, especially ones low in resistant starch and other Paleo/Primal prebiotics
    2) I try to do what works best for me, and often fail
    3) YMMV. Don't imitate me--find what works for you. The only fact I know for certain is that of my ignorance. Iím not prescribing.
    4) It may improve discussion if neither of us tries to speak for the other

  2. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Missed this one! Good catch PPhil. It also works great with beans, but I lived in Holland for 3 years and don't recall ever seeing anyone eating beans there.
    We DO eat beans though.

  3. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleophil View Post
    Just noticed that Biko left out the last step of letting it cool again before eating. It's cooking, freezing, cooking, cooling or just cooking, freezing, thawing, I think. Even higher RS would be produced by using fermentation: cooking, freezing, thawing, fermenting for days in a cool place like the fridge (such as fermented legumes like "pease porridge in the pot, nine days old" Everyday Life On A Shoestring: Food Waste Friday - Pease Pudding Hot, Pease Pudding Cold!, miso, natto, fermented red yeast rice, fermented potatoes Video: Fermented Potatoes | The Healthy Home Economist, fermented unripe plantain Using Unripe Plantain to Cure Stomach Ulcer, fermented hummus Lacto-Fermented Hummus, etc.).
    Ok, thanks, so basically you don't eat them hot ever?

  4. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by biko View Post
    Ok, thanks, so basically you don't eat them hot ever?
    I'll look for a paper I have, but the cooling/heating cycles each increase the RS. Eventually it slows way down. The biggest two increases are in the first cooling and reheating cycles, so eating them 'reheated' is perfectly fine. There are industrial processes for tapioca starch and corn starch that use repeated heating and cooling to make commercial RS sources used in baking and food processing.

    You Dutchy's eat beans now? Did England invade? Just kidding. When I was there it was all about the boerekool met aardapples en worst. mmmm mmmm And Nasi Ballen, of course.

  5. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleophil View Post
    Just noticed that Biko left out the last step of letting it cool again before eating. It's cooking, freezing, cooking, cooling or just cooking, freezing, thawing, I think. Even higher RS would be produced by using fermentation: cooking, freezing, thawing, fermenting for days in a cool place like the fridge (such as fermented legumes like "pease porridge in the pot, nine days old" Everyday Life On A Shoestring: Food Waste Friday - Pease Pudding Hot, Pease Pudding Cold!, miso, natto, fermented red yeast rice, fermented potatoes Video: Fermented Potatoes | The Healthy Home Economist, fermented unripe plantain Using Unripe Plantain to Cure Stomach Ulcer, fermented hummus Lacto-Fermented Hummus, etc.).
    Wow! You been doing some learnin'! I'm going to read all these this afternoon. Thanks.

  6. #316
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    By reheating, I think Otzi means just enough to be nicely warm, rather than steaming hot, yes? Eating it cold maximizes RS, but you still get some when reheated. I'm very sensitive to easily-digested starches and I seem to get the lowest level of negative symptoms from starches fresh out of the fridge and still very cold (as in potato salad), though it's a subtle difference that's difficult to be sure about.

    Traditional fermentation (the oldest types involving little or no added heat--fermentation goes back many millions of years in primate history--predating cooking by millions of years) is one of the great lost arts of humanity due to the unfortunate unintended consequences of the invention of electricity and the refrigerator/freezer. I read a lot about fermentation before I learned about the importance of resistant starch, which fits right in with the fermentation story, which is one reason I didn't dismiss RS like so many LCers do. The healthiest "superfoods" tend to be raw and fermented and the healthiest "starches" tend to contain the highest levels of RS, and the highest levels are in RS-rich foods that are raw and fermented. Everything keeps pointing in that same direction.
    Last edited by Paleophil; 10-31-2013 at 03:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by tatertot View Post
    Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
    Notes I may point to:
    1) WARNING: beware of chronic very low carb diets, especially ones low in resistant starch and other Paleo/Primal prebiotics
    2) I try to do what works best for me, and often fail
    3) YMMV. Don't imitate me--find what works for you. The only fact I know for certain is that of my ignorance. Iím not prescribing.
    4) It may improve discussion if neither of us tries to speak for the other

  7. #317
    otzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleophil View Post
    By reheating, I think Otzi means just enough to be nicely warm, rather than steaming hot, yes? Eating it cold maximizes RS, but you still get some when reheated. I'm very sensitive to easily-digested starches and I seem to get the lowest level of negative symptoms from starches fresh out of the fridge and still very cold (as in potato salad), though it's a subtle difference that's difficult to be sure about.
    Hey, man - I just emailed you a pdf of a study where they tested these things out. It looks to me like when going for the cooled/reheated version of RS (3), then heating doesn't destroy it. Here's what's going on...with RS2, it can be either from amylopectin or amylose starch. Both are resistant when raw. Only the amylose will retrograde into RS3. In potatoes, only about 20% of the starch is amylose which is why the low numbers when heated and recooled (compared to the raw potato). RS3 can survive reheating. They make Hi-Maize exactly this way, they take high-amylose corn starch, heat and reheat until the RS reaches about 50% and sell it. This product can be heated however you like and the RS stays.

    Anyway, read the paper and see if you agree. Sorry I couldn't cut and paste from it in any meaningful way.

  8. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    I'll look for a paper I have, but the cooling/heating cycles each increase the RS. Eventually it slows way down. The biggest two increases are in the first cooling and reheating cycles, so eating them 'reheated' is perfectly fine. There are industrial processes for tapioca starch and corn starch that use repeated heating and cooling to make commercial RS sources used in baking and food processing.

    You Dutchy's eat beans now? Did England invade? Just kidding. When I was there it was all about the boerekool met aardapples en worst. mmmm mmmm And Nasi Ballen, of course.
    Thanks.
    Boerenkool but no bruinebonensoep?
    http://www.boodschappen.nl/wp-conten...34-470x225.jpg

  9. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by biko View Post
    Thanks.
    Boerenkool but no bruinebonensoep?
    http://www.boodschappen.nl/wp-conten...34-470x225.jpg
    Wow, that looked good. I never realized that was a popular dish in NL. Of course when I was there I would drive from Utrecht to Rotterdam just for Pizza Hut. Traditional dutch food is really healthy, lots of seafood and even the Indonesian influenced foods, it's just the Dutch snack foods that will kill you. Have you ever figured out what's in a Frikandel? lol

  10. #320
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    Thanks for the pdf, Otzi. I skimmed it and I'm confused by this -- it says "Digestibility of starch made resistant to a-amylase by cooling improved on reheating," but the numbers showed higher total carbohydrate and glucose in the cooled potato than reheated potato pie. It seems contradictory, but I'll bet I'm misunderstanding something.

    Is there anything special about potato pie or do you think that the results would apply to any reheated potato?

    Through testing I found that glucose is my most problematic carb, with easily-digestible starch 2nd worst, fructose fairly neutral to somewhat beneficial (in limited doses, of course), and RS most beneficial. So I'd be most interested in whichever way of preparing potatoes minimizes the glucose that my body can produce from it and maximizes the RS. Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by tatertot View Post
    Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong.
    Notes I may point to:
    1) WARNING: beware of chronic very low carb diets, especially ones low in resistant starch and other Paleo/Primal prebiotics
    2) I try to do what works best for me, and often fail
    3) YMMV. Don't imitate me--find what works for you. The only fact I know for certain is that of my ignorance. Iím not prescribing.
    4) It may improve discussion if neither of us tries to speak for the other

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