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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumroll View Post
    Yep, although if you're even serious about paleo and primal eating to the SLIGHTEST degree, you should be able to rattle off the list of safe sources pretty easily.
    But really, there's not that many...it's a pretty short list: Potatoes and rice.

    Ok, technically white potatoes, sweet potatoes and rice, and then there are the 'freak' safe starches that nobody ever eats: taro, tapioca, sago... I have seen plantains in the store but never bought them...

    Plus, I'm with you on the rice, I eat it very rarely. What's funny, is the best way to eat it--in terms of the resistant starch, is cooked and cooled...the only way I usually eat rice is in sushi rolls--cooked and cooled.

    I'm looking now to find out the difference in resistant starch between cooked and cooled rice/potatoes and cooked and warm--there seems to be a huge difference, though, like 50% more when cooled. Freaky.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    But really, there's not that many...it's a pretty short list: Potatoes and rice.

    Ok, technically white potatoes, sweet potatoes and rice, and then there are the 'freak' safe starches that nobody ever eats: taro, tapioca, sago... I have seen plantains in the store but never bought them...

    Plus, I'm with you on the rice, I eat it very rarely. What's funny, is the best way to eat it--in terms of the resistant starch, is cooked and cooled...the only way I usually eat rice is in sushi rolls--cooked and cooled.

    I'm looking now to find out the difference in resistant starch between cooked and cooled rice/potatoes and cooked and warm--there seems to be a huge difference, though, like 50% more when cooled. Freaky.
    I notice that I seem to process the starches much better when they're still warm. Before they've cooled. Just from a metabolic standpoint. I mean my gut has fewer issues and all that. Maybe resistant starches have a role there since they go all the way to the intestine?

    And regarding rice... I think a lot of people kind of forget that even though it's gluten-free, it is still a grain and suffers from the same issues they do. Paul Jaminet has no excuse for forgetting that however. Of COURSE he knows that. And yet he still recommends it. He's been getting further and further and further away from paleo/primal eating habits every time I read something from him however. I'm surprised he hasn't just jumped ship entirely to divorce himself from us and say that his "Perfect Health Diet" is in no way related to the paleo community. He still seems to make the connection, but it just seems the connection gets looser and looser all the time.

  3. #13
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    But Otzi, the above article on Butyrate by Jaminet also says this ;
    Sources of Butyrate

    There are two main ways to get butyrate and other short-chain fatty acids. The first is to eat fiber and let your intestinal bacteria do the rest. Whole plant foods such as sweet potatoes, properly prepared whole grains, beans, vegetables, fruit and nuts are good sources of fiber.

    Butyrate also occurs in significant amounts in food. What foods contain butyrate? Hmm, I wonder where the name BUTYR-ate came from? Butter perhaps? Butter is 3-4 percent butyrate, the richest known source. But everyone knows butter is bad for you, right?

    After thinking about it, I've decided that butyrate must have been a principal component of Dr. Weston Price's legendary butter oil. Price used this oil in conjunction with high-vitamin cod liver oil to heal tooth decay and a number of other ailments in his patients. The method he used to produce it would have concentrated fats with a low melting temperature, including butyrate, in addition to vitamin K2*****. Thus, the combination of high-vitamin cod liver oil and butter oil would have provided a potent cocktail of fat-soluble vitamins (A, D3, K2), omega-3 fatty acids and butyrate. It's no wonder it was so effective in his patients.
    I don't see the point in eating starches, resistant or otherwise if the whole point is to get your Butyrate on. Sounds to me like veggies with butter on top with perhaps some fruit or nuts for dessert would work just fine.

    Also that study he cites was on rats being fed a mix of lard and soy oil. It is talking about counteracting the inflammatory effects of this "high fat diet". It would be more interesting without the soy involved. There would probably a lot less inflammation involved in the first place.

    And I call bs on the whole "cooling" thing too. I can see that cooking changes the structure of things but cooling it, nah! It's just going to get up to 98.6 again in the tummy.
    Last edited by Paleobird; 12-19-2012 at 05:25 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Ok, technically white potatoes, sweet potatoes and rice, and then there are the 'freak' safe starches that nobody ever eats: taro, tapioca, sago... I have seen plantains in the store but never bought them...

    Plus, I'm with you on the rice, I eat it very rarely. What's funny, is the best way to eat it--in terms of the resistant starch, is cooked and cooled...the only way I usually eat rice is in sushi rolls--cooked and cooled.
    Freak safe starches for you maybe. I use tapioca pretty often (I keep tapioca starch and tapioca pearls in my pantry and use them in quite a few dishes), and I quite like plantains.

    Sago is similar to tapioca, but I haven't had it as often. Taro is just another tuber, again, one I haven't eaten as much.

    Don't assume that because you don't eat something that those foods aren't quite familiar to other North American primal/paleo folks. Quite a few people around here enjoy those foods often.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    Freak safe starches for you maybe. I use tapioca pretty often (I keep tapioca starch and tapioca pearls in my pantry and use them in quite a few dishes), and I quite like plantains.

    Sago is similar to tapioca, but I haven't had it as often. Taro is just another tuber, again, one I haven't eaten as much.

    Don't assume that because you don't eat something that those foods aren't quite familiar to other North American primal/paleo folks. Quite a few people around here enjoy those foods often.
    Exactly... and down here plantains (both black and green) and yucca are eaten a LOT!
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    Freak safe starches for you maybe. I use tapioca pretty often (I keep tapioca starch and tapioca pearls in my pantry and use them in quite a few dishes), and I quite like plantains.

    Sago is similar to tapioca, but I haven't had it as often. Taro is just another tuber, again, one I haven't eaten as much.

    Don't assume that because you don't eat something that those foods aren't quite familiar to other North American primal/paleo folks. Quite a few people around here enjoy those foods often.
    I was just kidding. I would love to try them all, in fact I wrote 'plantains' on the grocery list cause I know they have them where we shop. Tapioca pearls, I've had those in pudding, is there anything else you can do with them?

  7. #17
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    I use them mostly for thickening things.
    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    But Otzi, the above article on Butyrate by Jaminet also says this ;

    I don't see the point in eating starches, resistant or otherwise if the whole point is to get your Butyrate on. Sounds to me like veggies with butter on top with perhaps some fruit or nuts for dessert would work just fine.
    ...
    And I call bs on the whole "cooling" thing too. I can see that cooking changes the structure of things but cooling it, nah!
    There is butyrate in butter, but it gets absorbed in the small intestine. When you eat resistant starch, it gets to the colon where it is digested into butyrate. Big difference.

    The cooling thing is real, I'm surprised you didn't look into it before calling me on it.
    Retrogradation (starch) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Retrogradation is a reaction that takes place in gelatinized starch when the amylose and amylopectin chains realign themselves, causing the liquid to gel.

    When native starch is heated and dissolves in water, the crystalline structure of amylose and amylopectin molecules are lost and they hydrate to form a viscous solution. If the viscous solution is cooled or left at lower temperature for long enough period, the linear molecules, amylose, and linear parts of amylopectin molecules retrograde and rearrange themselves again to a more crystalline structure. The linear chains place themselves parallel and form hydrogen bridges. In viscous solutions the viscosity increases to form a gel. At temperatures between –8 and +8 °C the aging process is enhanced drastically.

    Retrogradation can expel water from the polymer network. This is a process known as syneresis. A small amount of water can be seen on top of the gel. Retrogradation is directly related to the staling or aging of bread[1]

    Retrograded starch is linked to a reduction in colon cancer.[2] Retrograded starch is less digestible (see resistant starch).

    Chemical modification of starches can reduce or enhance the retrogradation. Waxy, high amylopectin, starches have also much lesser tendency to retrogradate. Also additive as fat, glucose, sodium nitrate and emulsifier can reduce retrogradation of starch.
    Last edited by otzi; 12-19-2012 at 07:24 PM.

  9. #19
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  10. #20
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    Ok, fair point about the retrogradation but does anyone really want to eat gelatinous starch? No thanks.

    Vegetables make it to the intestine too. Why spuds and not broccoli? And what's wrong with the butyrate getting absorbed earlier in the process when ingested as butyrate laden butter. It all gets used regardless of when it gets absorbed.

    From the back and forth of the Eades/C-S A articles it is pretty clear Eades made a typographical boo boo in saying 2.3 grams when he meant .23 grams. That does not invalidate the rest of his analysis. It just means he needs a better copy editor.

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