04-20-2014, 06:44 PM
I think it's about time for Tater or someone to start a broader thread, with a title like "Beneficial Microorganisms" or "Old Friends Hypothesis" or something similar, else people may get the wrong impression that it's all about the RS instead of the larger picture. I already did that at another forum, so I'm hoping someone else will do that here, if there isn't already one.
The short answer is more the latter, though it depends on the individual.
Originally Posted by Mutton
Some people also claim that raw potatoes and raw PS (glycoalkaloids), raw legumes (lectins), and even raw plantains (oxalates), are poisonous or at least must be cooked. Others say no, in certain amounts, the least toxic varieties or traditionally prepared fractions are safe or even beneficial. Hormesis is a common phenomenon in nature, in which the toxicity/benefit of foods follows a j- or u- shaped curve where there is a certain middle amount of the food that is maximally beneficial, but too much is harmful (some research indicates that this is the case with butyrate too). Plus, when the starch is separated out, the natural toxin content (and all plants contain plant toxins) is reportedly reduced (for example, for cassava and potatoes, the toxins are concentrated in the skin). I so far have noticed only positive effects from raw starchy or inulin-rich foods like PS, potatoes, green plantains/bananas, tapioca flour, mung bean starch, jicama, onions, garlic, scallions, etc., so I'm currently eating them. A minority of people do report problems from all of them. So it appears to depend on the individual. People who are prone to food allergies/intolerances/sensitivities should be especially careful.
I think it helped me that I had already been eating a mostly-raw Paleo diet, so that I was already getting other plant and animal fibers that may have enabled me to handle raw RS sources better than some. One thing that I think both the RS experimenters, raw Paleo dieters and raw vegans/vegetarians have shown is that humans have a greater ability to tolerate a wide variety of raw foods than had previously been assumed. I suspect that RS (and the animal resistant starch/glycans that DuckDodgers wrote about at FTA) will eventually help some people connect the dots about this and my guess is that we'll see more people experimenting with eating more of other raw foods in the future beyond RS-rich ones. From what I've read, it seems Jeff Leach of the American Gut Project is already eating a lot of plant foods generally raw that most people cook (such as onions and garlic), and he remarked at how little the Hadza bother to cook animal intestines that were not thoroughly cleaned!
Raw and "undercooked" animal foods are still a taboo for many so-called Paleo dieters, so I don't expect a huge shift, just a growing number of mavericks brave (or foolish? ;-) ) enough to try them.
Cold hands and feet are the last to warm up for most people, including me (in my case, just my hands were cold--I think past blood pooling/edema in my feet and lower legs overcame VLC torpor and in my AMA-approved diet days, my feet actually tended to be hot and sweaty despite cold hands). The body protects the organs first and sacrifices the extremities. My hands were still a bit cold when my body temp improved, and now some 9 or 10 months after increasing RS, my hands are warm too. People no longer remark at how cold my hand is when I shake hands with them.
Track your waking and mid-day oral or armpit temperatures to check for early improvement. They should rise to around 97.8-98.2 waking and around 98.6-99.5 mid-day post meal temps (depending on what you've eaten and activity levels) after some time eating ancestral intake levels of RS or other butyrate-generating prebiotics. If the oral/armpit temps never rise, that presumably would suggest that there is a deficit of butyrate-producing bacteria and/or carb intake is chronically very low.
My completely amateur guess is that it's not ideal to stay chronically in either low or high body temps, but instead vary over the day within a natural range. It's also probably not ideal for body temps to dramatically and chaotically spike up and down to high and/or low extremes. My body temp does vary during the day, but it never plummets down into the 96's, 95's and even 94's like it used to in the past.
Last edited by Paleophil; 04-20-2014 at 07:34 PM.
04-20-2014, 08:18 PM
Thanks for the very comprehensive answer!
I'm interested to hear if anyone has a specific experience with tapioca, as well as peoples experiences with better body temp (mine is poor as well!)
04-20-2014, 08:26 PM
FWIW, mung bean starch raised my body temp the most, up to the 99+ max level that Ray Peat shoots for, though Spanish Caravan (an MD) was concerned that it might be too high. Since then, other foods have also raised my body temp up to that level. For now I'm guessing that Ray Peat is right on this score, but there's no guarantee that he is.
04-21-2014, 01:50 AM
Hmm, I'm intrigued by the body temp issue. My temperature has been down in the 97.6-97.8 range for at least the last 10 years - it may have been before that too, but once I moved to Arizona it was noticeably lower (I assumed as an adaptation to the desert). For me, if my temp is 99 degrees I feel like I have a fever. I also chronically suffered from cold fingers and toes.
Since I added in resistant starch, I have noticed that my fingers and toes are almost always warm, which is odd. But since I started in February and it was already warming up here (I think I shut the heat off and opened my windows in my house in mid-February) idk how much of that is external vs internal temperature (or placebo). Also, my temp as measured orally is still consistently under 98 degrees (just now it was 97.8). I may have to wait until it cools off again in November to see how much the warmer fingers and toes can be attributed to the RS.
04-21-2014, 10:50 AM
What's going to be the most cost effective way to get RS into my diet without potatoes or potato starch? I'm thinking of embarking on some kind of autoimmune paleo thing since I've been having some issues that may be autoimmune in origin.
Actually, I guess I should say cost effective with an emphasis on cheap.
04-21-2014, 01:01 PM
Dried plantains! Get the greenest you can find, slice thin and air dry. A bit of salt makes them very tasty.
Originally Posted by namelesswonder
04-21-2014, 01:10 PM
I was wondering if anyone had experienced changes in their allergies since starting a regimen of Soil-Based Probiotics and Resistant Starch?
I'm only about 7-10 days into a regimen of Bob's Red Mill unmodified potato starch (up to around 3 tbsp/day) and the following probiotics; Prescript-Assist, AOR Probiotic-3, Primal Defense Ultra.
I've spent the day suffering from a really bad bout of what I'd say was allergic rhinitis; sneezing, itchy and watery eyes, swelling and inflammation of the nasal passage.
The pollen count is fairly high in my part of the UK right now, so I'd be inclined to say it's hay fever, except I'm 33 years old and I've never had hay fever before, or any other sort of allergy. I've taken an anti-histamine tablet and it has helped ease the discomfort for now.
The RS and probiotics are the only thing that have changed in my diet recently, and when I searched online for a link between gut flora and allergies it suggested that use of probiotics has been show to improve people's allergies such as hay fever.
I couldn't find any information about changes in gut bacteria causing a flare up of allergies where one didn't exist before, but I wondered if anyone here had encountered this?
04-21-2014, 01:15 PM
My guess is that we all teeter on the verge of being allergic to something, so that a slight change in our eating habits changes the gut bug balance and we become less allergically reactive or more so. The Paleo/Primal diet has cured my allergies 99% and the PS/probiotics have had no effect. Possibly you went the other direction. Simple test, lay off the stuff for a few weeks and then go back to it and see what happens. Curious to follow your progress - best of luck.
Originally Posted by joe_l
04-21-2014, 02:30 PM
Hey, Joe_l - I encountered something similar. I had never had allergies to anything my entire life, finally at age 45 or so I was a health train wreck with full-fledged metabolic syndrome. I went low carb and really cleaned up my diet. Got off of a sackful of meds and lost a ton of weight.
Originally Posted by joe_l
The next spring, I had allergies to all kinds of pollen. My eyes were runny, I'd sneeze like crazy. Then I became allergic to almonds. An almond would cause tingling and burning in throat. Then it was apples. I ate an apple and my face blew up like a balloon.
This all lasted about 2 years and figured it was just a normal part of aging. Then last year, I started adding back starchy carbs a la the Perfect Health Diet. Last spring no allergies, I started playing with almonds and apples--nothing. I now eat both regularly.
So, not sure where you are in the health and dieting spectrum, but my feeling is that eating a diet restricted in carbs for too long impacts immunity. RS may not be enough to fix it all, but focusing on more overall carbs towards a moderate intake 120-150g/day or so may have a bigger impact.
04-21-2014, 09:59 PM
Since there is so much talk about probiotics in this thread. Seems that it would be pretty easy to avoid that torcherous path to the colon by entering through the rear exit. Isn't this kinda like feces transplants without the "mess?"
This might be a really bad idea, so just asking.
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