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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleophil View Post
    Thanks, as soon as I saw the X-Ray Diffraction Pattern and put that together with the crystalline cell structure, I thought "fractal." Sure enough, resistant starches have a fractal surface and porous structure and apparently have higher fractal dimensions than more easily digested starches:
    Glad you found that useful, I never put it together with fractal design of mitochondria...

    Here are a couple studies on RS and specific microbiome populations:

    These findings might have an important implication for large bowel physiology since Cassidy et al. (1994) showed that there were strong inverse associations between the incidence of colorectal cancer and starch intake or the sum of dietary fiber and RS intake, while dietary fiber alone did not show any significant relationships.

    Volunteers were provided successively with a control diet, diets high in resistant starch (RS) or non-starch polysaccharides (NSPs) and a reduced carbohydrate weight loss (WL) diet, over 10 weeks.

    The second one was pretty cool:
    In contrast to these responses to RS, there was little evidence that the high NSP diet resulted in major alterations in the composition of the faecal microbiota. In part, however, this may reflect the fact that a smaller increase was achieved in NSP intake (1.5-fold) than with RS intake (4.8-fold) when compared with the M diet. It is possible that larger changes in specific NSP components would affect the populations of specific groups of colonic bacteria, as was observed with RS. Significant decreases were observed for C. aerofaciens and for the E. rectale group on the WL diet. The WL changes do not show a simple relationship with RS and NSP intakes, and it is possible that the increased dietary protein content of this diet might have a role in altering microbiota composition.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    I'd like to hear more about your 'fiber mix'. I think you could make your own with a mixture of 25% Psyllium Husk Powder and 75% Potato starch (or even Hi-Maize). I don't think there is anything wrong with Hi-Maize, I just think people are deluded if they think it's going to be 'healthy' to use it in baking alongside wheat flour, or found as an ingredient in store-bought bread. If you want to use Hi-Maize, add it raw to a smoothie or glass of milk/kefir.
    Hi Otzi, thanks for your reply. That is what I use: About Fibrefine - Sukrin Ltd
    It is a mix of fibers and RS. I don't bake with it, I just use it as a supplement in my yogurt once in a while.

    EDIT: oh yeah, I also buy their bread mix : http://sukrin.org/low-carb-bread/about/
    Easy to prepare and quite good! But again, I am not a bread addict at all, it is only once in a while, when I find the package in the local health store.
    Last edited by FrenchFry; 08-20-2013 at 01:28 PM.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchFry View Post
    Hi Otzi, thanks for your reply. That is what I use: About Fibrefine - Sukrin Ltd
    It is a mix of fibers and RS. I don't bake with it, I just use it as a supplement in my yogurt once in a while.

    EDIT: oh yeah, I also buy their bread mix : About the low carb bread - Sukrin Ltd
    Easy to prepare and quite good! But again, I am not a bread addict at all, it is only once in a while, when I find the package in the local health store.

    The Sukrin Fibrefine stuff is just RS from corn, approx 6g per TBS. Plain old potato starch is probably a lot cheaper and almost 8g per TBS. The Fibrefine is probably an OK product. The bread actually looks pretty good and I would try it if I had the chance. Ingredients are:
    Seeds and kernels (Psyllium, sunflower, sesame, pumpkin, flax), fibre (from sugar beet and peas, Fibrefine resistant corn starch), whole egg powder, pea protein, sweetener Sukrin (erythritol), raising agents (E450, E500), low-sodium salt (sodium chloride and potassium chloride).

  4. #154
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    Being a 1x/week cheating low carber I decided to test this out today. Since I was slicing tators for the boys french fries anyhow. Ate one whole uncooked potato 6 hours ago. Like many I've snagged a few pieces of raw while mom was cooking, but I've never eaten a whole one I don't think. So this is like how much RS fermenting now? 30-50g right? Anyhow, no noticeable belly change yet. We shall see

    Oh, BTW.... when reading up on the raw potato deal seems the sweet potato and yams could be more problematic than a raw russet huh?

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Being a 1x/week cheating low carber I decided to test this out today. Since I was slicing tators for the boys french fries anyhow. Ate one whole uncooked potato 6 hours ago. Like many I've snagged a few pieces of raw while mom was cooking, but I've never eaten a whole one I don't think. So this is like how much RS fermenting now? 30-50g right? Anyhow, no noticeable belly change yet. We shall see

    Oh, BTW.... when reading up on the raw potato deal seems the sweet potato and yams could be more problematic than a raw russet huh?
    The rumbling will commence in 3...2...1

    Actually, it should take 2-3 hours to get to the large intestine where fermentation takes place.

    Sweet potatoes and yams are completely different than white potatoes in terms of RS and starch content. Very problematic for most to eat raw, too.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    The rumbling will commence in 3...2...1

    Actually, it should take 2-3 hours to get to the large intestine where fermentation takes place.

    Sweet potatoes and yams are completely different than white potatoes in terms of RS and starch content. Very problematic for most to eat raw, too.
    This is kind of a test to see if my (lets guess 1x/week) "cheat" day sort of binges have kept my gut bacteria ready for anything! Its like a surprise inspection.... eheh. I did it with a white potato, just small-medium size though. I mention the sweet potato bit cause just before I started crunching I was trying to find if there was any real chance of damage outside of some GI rumbles. Basically everything on the white potato says the nasties are mainly in the leaves, flowers, and to a small extent the skin.... just don't eat a green or damaged one. But, then I fould this for the sweet potato Is Eating raw sweet potato bad for you? - PaleoHacks.com and the top answer would give me pause about doing that. But yeah, been six hours and no dicernable difference from any other day. So far so good.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    This is kind of a test to see if my (lets guess 1x/week) "cheat" day sort of binges have kept my gut bacteria ready for anything! Its like a surprise inspection.... eheh. I did it with a white potato, just small-medium size though. I mention the sweet potato bit cause just before I started crunching I was trying to find if there was any real chance of damage outside of some GI rumbles. Basically everything on the white potato says the nasties are mainly in the leaves, flowers, and to a small extent the skin.... just don't eat a green or damaged one. But, then I fould this for the sweet potato Is Eating raw sweet potato bad for you? - PaleoHacks.com and the top answer would give me pause about doing that. But yeah, been six hours and no dicernable difference from any other day. So far so good.
    I would almost be inclined to believe that if you could eat a whole, raw potato and not get a case of serious fartage, that your gut bacteria does not contain many of the 'beneficial' kind, at least not the butyrate producing, resistant starch eating kind.

    If you get no toots, you will probably see chunks of undigested potato in your stool. That means it wasn't fermented or digested in your large intestine.

    How is your digestion normally? Are you happy with everything (flatulence, bowel movement frequency, ease, and malodor)?

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    I would almost be inclined to believe that if you could eat a whole, raw potato and not get a case of serious fartage, that your gut bacteria does not contain many of the 'beneficial' kind, at least not the butyrate producing, resistant starch eating kind.

    If you get no toots, you will probably see chunks of undigested potato in your stool. That means it wasn't fermented or digested in your large intestine.

    How is your digestion normally? Are you happy with everything (flatulence, bowel movement frequency, ease, and malodor)?

    Oh, yeah... if I see floating potato I'll know I'm in trouble . Nah, I've got a cast iron gut. And everything is as normal as can be in that department. 1x/day sort of guy with ease and well it does smell like shit though . Interesting note on normal flatulence frequencies earlier in the thread though. I mean of course frequency of normal bowel sounds upon auscultation of the abdomen is part of abdominal physical examination, but I don't think I had ever seen a normal frequency of flatulence before. Interesting. I should say I seem to be normal there as well. Just decided to do this today for fun. I'm off work, had a great workout this morning... had a tator in the fridge. Nothing special bout my circumstances. Just a little test.

  9. #159
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    Otzi, I don't know how important the fractal structures of mitochondria are to the benefits that RS provides them, but I would not be surprised if they are significantly so.

    I suspect that one reason the fractal aspect of things isn't researched more in science is that it is very complex and mysterious and difficult to quantify, though Mandelbrot was able to do some quantification of fractals. Also, fractals unfortunately attract lots of woo, which seems to turn off the hard science folks.

    Thanks again for all the info you have shared so helpfully and cheerfully. Your diligence, thoroughness, generosity and positive attitude are so rare on the Internet that it's like coming across a rich gold ore vein in a mine. I especially appreciate someone who has tested things on himself and shared the results, without any dogma. It puzzles me why more accolades aren't directed your way. And I'm not someone who is generous with thanks or praise (an embarrassing fault that I sometimes get taken to task for).

    I've eaten raw sweet potato in the past without problems. I found that to make it palatable I could soak it overnight. After soaking, it tasted a lot like carrots. Drying didn't help, unlike many other foods (meats and fruits that are air-dried tend to become incredibly delectable, for example--maybe too much so). It's been a long time since I tried raw sweet potatoes. I should probably try that again.

    Mark Sisson seems like a reasonable and open-minded fellow, based on his book (which I bought) and blog. My guess is that there is something to this RS thing and he will eventually embrace it (and he has left that window open, as he hasn't condemned it) and then people will say things like "We ALWAYS knew that RS-rich foods were beneficial. You're didn't tell us anything we didn't already know." You probably will not receive much more thanks than that.
    Last edited by Paleophil; 08-20-2013 at 05:12 PM.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    The rumbling will commence in 3...2...1

    Actually, it should take 2-3 hours to get to the large intestine where fermentation takes place.

    Sweet potatoes and yams are completely different than white potatoes in terms of RS and starch content. Very problematic for most to eat raw, too.
    I've eaten raw yams without any problems. I like white potatoes better.

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